Did the Gulf War really happen?
11-12-2008, 09:08 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by jungle
It's simple really, our objective is to keep a lid on a very unstable oil rich area that just happens to be under a large number of death cult psychotics intent on disrupting the world as we know it by prolonged civil war, nuclear threat, and general mayhem.
It is good for the world economy as long as we don't go broke doing it. In the future, any conflicts will be settled in milliseconds since we have to "rightsize" our response and use up those old, well maintained and cheaper weapons(nukes) and can't afford anymore troop deployments.
It is good for the world economy as long as we don't go broke doing it. In the future, any conflicts will be settled in milliseconds since we have to "rightsize" our response and use up those old, well maintained and cheaper weapons(nukes) and can't afford anymore troop deployments.
11-12-2008, 09:11 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Apples to oranges, but how many times have we seen a military that has superior technology not come out on top?
Both countries have at least some form of representative gov't in place and others are attacking it. Do we have to stop every attack in order to be successful? If so....then no one is ever on top.
Too bad it's not the same in Afghanistan.
USMCFLYR
11-12-2008, 09:20 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Great place for asymmetric warefare to be sure. Again though....define success. We can be very successful on a variety of fronts and it is hardly noticed because we are *suppose* to do those things (whether they be build an infrastructure or produce KIA/WIAs) and all it takes is for ONE single event (anything from a well coordinated attack to the lucky mortar round) for the enemies to claim victory - which is then portrayed in the media as the same.
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
11-12-2008, 10:34 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
True, but like I said, apples to oranges. I was thinking more along the lines of how many times have we seen superior technology overcome an insurgent enemy? Vietnam, The Russians in Afghanistan, portions of the Eastern Front during WWII, etc.
Actually, history is full of examples of technology destroying an insurgency.
How do you define "overcome". If we left Afghanistan tomorrow, exactly what would they gain? Wouldn't they still wake up in Afghanistan?
Bottom line, we have made it very difficult for anyone to operate anything larger than a gyro stand there.
There really are no physical targets in this war(with the exception of a certain processing plant) it is all about targeting specific groups, wherever thay may move. I suspect our economy will drive us to a much more isolationist stance in the near term.
Last edited by jungle; 11-12-2008 at 10:47 AM.
11-12-2008, 10:37 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
True, but like I said, apples to oranges. I was thinking more along the lines of how many times have we seen superior technology overcome an insurgent enemy? Vietnam, The Russians in Afghanistan, portions of the Eastern Front during WWII, etc.
I did not address insurgency or asymetric warfare, which is a whole 'nother topic altogether.
11-12-2008, 12:36 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by jungle
Actually, history is full of examples of technology destroying an insurgency.
How do you define "overcome". If we left Afghanistan tomorrow, exactly what would they gain? Wouldn't they still wake up in Afghanistan?
Bottom line, we have made it very difficult for anyone to operate anything larger than a gyro stand there.
How do you define "overcome". If we left Afghanistan tomorrow, exactly what would they gain? Wouldn't they still wake up in Afghanistan?
Bottom line, we have made it very difficult for anyone to operate anything larger than a gyro stand there.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
My original post was 100% about mech/armor vs. mech/armor...I was answering the original question as to how US forces could sweep up Iraqi REGULAR MILITARY forces on a matter of days (twice).
11-12-2008, 12:50 PM
#27
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True. But the sad part is those people who find it "difficult to operate anything larger than a gyro stand" are STILL able to inflict casualties on U.S. forces using insurgent tactics and weapons that could be termed as "primitive".
Gotcha, but there other cases of mech/armor conflicts where the one with more technology didn't ensure success. Way before the Israelis had the highly capable Merkava, or even U.S. supplied M48/60 tanks they were able to defeat Syrian/Egyptian armor forces using the latest Soviet T series with nothing more than a modified WWII Sherman.
Tactics and training. You have to know HOW to use all that fancy equipment to be able to utilize it effectively.
USMCFLYR
11-12-2008, 12:57 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Tactics and training. You have to know HOW to use all that fancy equipment to be able to utilize it effectively.
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
11-12-2008, 01:20 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Thank you for making the point I've been trying to get at. Training and tactics, coupled with a highly motivated foe who may have a "nothing to lose" mentality can defeat technology.
Let's say a pilot in a A-4 Skyhawk kicking the crap out of a F-14.
VERY EXPERIENCED guy in the A-4 Skyhawk consistanly beating the new pilot in the TomCat.
Or...my 100 high caliber tanks coupled with the best training and the most highly motivated people around taking on and defeating a force of thousands of less capable tanks with conscript crews who are looking for a way out.
USMCFLYR
11-12-2008, 01:28 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Actually what I was talking about is how a inferior technology can overcome a better technology.
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR;497362Or
...my 100 high caliber tanks coupled with the best training and the most highly motivated people around taking on and defeating a force of thousands of less capable tanks with conscript crews who are looking for a way out.
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
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