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-   -   Heavy (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/34619-heavy.html)

flyBry 12-15-2008 12:58 PM

Heavy
 
What exactly does the "heavy" after the call sign, mean? I have an educated guess, but I'd rather hear it from the pro's. And no, I will not just google it.

Diver Driver 12-15-2008 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by flyBry (Post 519031)
What exactly does the "heavy" after the call sign, mean? I have an educated guess, but I'd rather hear it from the pro's. And no, I will not just google it.

"Heavy" is designated for aircraft with a takeoff weight of 255,000 pounds or greater. Although they use "Super" in place of "Heavy" when using the call sign for an A-380 for increased aircraft separation due to its exceptionally heavy weight and large size.

Thedude 12-15-2008 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by flyBry (Post 519031)
What exactly does the "heavy" after the call sign, mean? I have an educated guess, but I'd rather hear it from the pro's. And no, I will not just google it.

You could have easily looked at the FARs, wikipedia or GOOGLED it.
It means an aircraft with a takeoff weight above 255,000 lbs.

normajean21 12-15-2008 01:15 PM

why do you ask? and no i will not just google it

flyBry 12-15-2008 01:26 PM

Thanks Diver, that's the answer I was looking for.
It just seems like when ever I ask a question on here, there is always someone that says: you could have just googled it.
Well, you can google everything... whats the point of having a forum then?
Thanks for the answer though.

UAL T38 Phlyer 12-15-2008 02:07 PM

Resons...
 
FlyBry:

I'm trying to remember if this is done ICAO-wide, or just in the US. Been too long since I've flown International or on a heavy.

Regardless, the intent is to inform other aircraft on-frequency that the aircraft is likely to have very strong wake vortices. ATC should provide adequate separation, but pilots are allowed to ask for additional separation.

The B-757 has probably the worst vortex of any airliner, and models that do not meet the 255,000 lb weight category are still called "Heavy" on the radio.

hotshot 12-15-2008 02:19 PM

Let me google that for you :p :)

Ottopilot 12-15-2008 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 519078)
FlyBry:

I'm trying to remember if this is done ICAO-wide, or just in the US. Been too long since I've flown International or on a heavy.


The B-757 has probably the worst vortex of any airliner, and models that do not meet the 255,000 lb weight category are still called "Heavy" on the radio.

I fly international and we do not use "heavy" outside the USA. It seems the foreign controllers are smart enough to read the strips in front of them?

Also, many don't know or care, but you only use "heavy" in the call sign on tower and approach, not center.

CAL 757-200's are 255,000lbs, but do not use "heavy"? Different airlines have different weights/models. The 757-300's are heavy.

hollingsworth 12-15-2008 03:58 PM

Also, many don't know or care, but you only use "heavy" in the call sign on tower and approach, not center.

Not true in Canada.

Photon 12-15-2008 04:00 PM

Guess it's not much for the sake of the controller as it is for the trailing Cessna :p

Planespotta 12-15-2008 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by flyBry (Post 519050)
It just seems like when ever I ask a question on here, there is always someone that says: you could have just googled it.

Or cordially ask why you want to know in the first place :rolleyes:

blastoff 12-15-2008 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by Ottopilot (Post 519091)
Also, many don't know or care, but you only use "heavy" in the call sign on tower and approach, not center.

The Regs do not specify this for pilots. It's just style points that most of us don't say it on center since there is good separation at Center altitudes. I have had US Center Controllers call me "Heavy" at altitude, even when it didn't match the exceptions in their Regs:

2-4-14. WORDS AND PHRASES
a. Use the words or phrases in radiotelephone and
interphone communication as contained in the P/CG
or, within areas where Controller Pilot Data Link
Communications (CPDLC) is in use, the phraseology
contained in the applicable CPDLC message set.
b. The word “heavy” shall be used as part of the
identification of heavy jet aircraft as follows:
TERMINAL. In all communications with or about
heavy jet aircraft.
EN ROUTE. The use of the word heavy may be
omitted except as follows:
1. In communications with a terminal facility
about heavy jet operations.
2. In communications with or about heavy jet
aircraft with regard to an airport where the en route
center is providing approach control service.
3. In communications with or about heavy jet
aircraft when the separation from a following aircraft
may become less than 5 miles by approved procedure.
4. When issuing traffic advisories.
EXAMPLE-
“United Fifty-Eight Heavy.”
NOTEMost
airlines will use the word “heavy” following the
company prefix and flight number when establishing
communications or when changing frequencies within a
terminal facility's area.
5. When in radio communications with “Air
Force One” or “Air Force Two,” do not add the heavy
designator to the call sign. State only the call sign “Air
Force One/Two” regardless of the type aircraft.

Toejam 12-17-2008 12:55 AM

When I'm at home, I follow my conversations with "heavy" just to let my wife know I need some extra space. She usually passes this on to others who might not know the strange communication. Sometimes my disposition is such that even with the extra spacing, upsets occur... Oh well, what can you do?

Seeburg220 12-17-2008 03:40 AM


Originally Posted by blastoff (Post 519320)
The Regs do not specify this for pilots. It's just style points that most of us don't say it on center since there is good separation at Center altitudes. I have had US Center Controllers call me "Heavy" at altitude, even when it didn't match the exceptions in their Regs

FYI - it used to be a requirement for all controllers to use the word "heavy" when applicable. They no longer require center controllers to use it, but at the same time, they are not barred from using it either. The change occurred about 10-15 years ago.

flyBry 12-17-2008 09:25 AM

Awesome, thanks guys. I was listening to ATC, at: "liveatc.net" and heard "heavy" after a few transmissions. I kinda figured it meant a certain weight and/or carrying cargo. But like I said, I wanted to ask the pros and not google. Now I know! thanks again guys.:D

flyandive 12-17-2008 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Ottopilot (Post 519091)
I fly international and we do not use "heavy" outside the USA. It seems the foreign controllers are smart enough to read the strips in front of them?

Also, many don't know or care, but you only use "heavy" in the call sign on tower and approach, not center.

CAL 757-200's are 255,000lbs, but do not use "heavy"? Different airlines have different weights/models. The 757-300's are heavy.

I do believe an aircraft is a heavy if it is greater than 255,000 lbs MGTOW but since the 757-200 is exactly 255,000 lbs it is not a heavy. Go Figure. :rolleyes: The 757-300 is 272,500 lbs so it does qualify.

AZFlyer 12-17-2008 09:43 PM

Its more than just doing other aircraft on the freq a favor.

ATC is required to maintain minimum distances between aircraft in different phases of flight for wake turbulence avoidance.

The best place to reference the info would be the JO7110.65. The controllers bible.

4 miles sep. behind a large
5 miles sep. behind 757 (757-200 has its own distance minima)
6 miles sep. behind heavy

As you can see, and as UAL briefly pointed out, the 752 is a unique case where it does not meet heavy weight minima, but due to its very strong wake turbulence generation, an additional mile (for 5 total miles) is added to the distance of aircraft in trail behind a 752.

(I had two final exams today, one in tower ops, and one in tracon ops... its still fresh..... for the moment. :cool:)

Diver Driver 12-18-2008 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by flyandive (Post 520484)
I do believe an aircraft is a heavy if it is greater than 255,000 lbs MGTOW but since the 757-200 is exactly 255,000 lbs it is not a heavy. Go Figure. :rolleyes: The 757-300 is 272,500 lbs so it does qualify.

I was under the impression that it was 255K inclusive and higher... However, if that is the case, that may be why we don't hear it from the 752 drivers.

SpyGlass 12-18-2008 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by Toejam (Post 520253)
When I'm at home, I follow my conversations with "heavy" just to let my wife know I need some extra space. She usually passes this on to others who might not know the strange communication. Sometimes my disposition is such that even with the extra spacing, upsets occur... Oh well, what can you do?

Haha!!!! I'll have to try that one at home too, just before I retreat into my man cave...


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