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Pilots -vs- Doctors
Johnso29 posted:
You get real man. Doctors DONT = Pilots. You have NO IDEA if most doctors would find it easy studying for their 757 type. You don't even know if any of them would grasp aerodynamics. Different people with different personalities ACCEL at different things. I respect doctors, but they don't belong on a pedestal JUST because they're a doctor. They aren't BETTER then pilots. Plenty of doctors KILL themselves flying airplanes. I don't see how since apparently it's WAAAAY easier to be a pilot. Some people. |
and bcrosier tells it like it is too:
The professional pilot vs. MD debate always seems to get off track (usually by those who underestimate both professions). The reality is they are both highly skilled professions, requiring years of training and a great financial expenditure (unless you go the military route, and then you pay in another form) to reach the level of working professionally. Anyone who claims otherwise is a moron. I also believe both have seen a deterioration in their overall compensation due to varying factors (though I think pilots have been hit much, much harder). I do however maintain that if the deterioration of this industry continues, you will eventually see a trend that will prove hard to reverse: The quality of people who have chosen to become pilots in the past will no longer do so (or won't continue to do it after a military career). Instead those positions will be filled with people with a reduced aptitude for the skills required to do the job well - the ability to process information and make decisions continually in real time, the ability to receive information from a number of sources (often conflicting) and make a good decision based on that information, managerial skills, the ability to occasionally make split second decisions correctly, and the required manual dexterity to list just a few. None of these unto themselves is particularly hard to find, but taken together they form a somewhat unique skill set which makes one well suited to the task. Now, when you start filling these positions with those with those of a lesser aptitude, you are eventually going to see a decrease in performance. In our business, that is measured in mass fatalities. It won't happen immediately, because we (as an industry) have done a very good job of engineering safety into many aspects of the system. What you will eventually see though, is an increase in accidents and fatalities. Instead of an Al Haynes saving 184 lives through his skill, judgment, and use of resources; you'll see a crippled aircraft crash with a loss of all on board in what experts will deem "an unforseeable (BS) and unsurvivable failure." It will be hard to put your finger on, but it will occur. We may be at the beginning of that trend, or it may not rear it's head for another five or ten years - I don't know. This precisely addresses the idiotic crap but forth such as those who cite the alleged Mythbusters example (I haven't seen that episode). Every one of us who is a real pilot knows good and well the usually the sim techs can do a better job flying the sim than we can. Of course they can! IT'S A FRICKING VIDEO GAME!!! THEY PLAY IT EVERY NIGHT FROM 1am TO 5am!!! THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO!!! [and I say this not to denigrate sim training or sim techs in any way, again those on here who do something beyond flying flight sim know precisely of what I am speaking] I've never met a sim tech who claims they can do our job - the mere ability to remember to apply 8 pounds of back pressure to raise the nose 2.5 degrees a 40' radio altitude does not a professional aviator make, any more than the ability to wear a white coat and say "It's probably a virus, if Junior isn't better in three days, bring him back in and we'll look at him again" makes me a doctor. Those who get on here and denigrate the profession are most likely either: 1) Management plants who should go stick their heads in an oven 2) Twelve year olds playing flight sim (again, with no disrespect towards many twelve year olds who could do a much better job of running an airline than boobs like Tilton et. al. 3) The very people who I believe are going to cause the above trend to occur. I personally don't think being an airline pilot is rocket science. Rocket scientists don't have to possess many of the strengths and skills that I do. Nor do I have the proclivity towards advanced mathematics which rockets scientists find to be childs play. I am a highly trained, specialized, and qualified professional - and I deserve to be compensated as such. THAT IS THE TRUE BOTTOM LINE. To quote Torch Lewis always (for those of you who read BCA): "'Nuff said." |
Pilots vs. Doctors. Would this be a boxing match? Wrestling? Octagon? I say pilots win all three.
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What does title dictate?
Hard work, dedication, and peer review happen in a lot of professions. If it comes down to pilots vs. doctors - I prefer break dance fighting. |
They can keep the prostate exams too.
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Originally Posted by HSLD
(Post 529410)
If it comes down to pilots vs. doctors - I prefer break dance fighting. |
Where's TonyMontana when you need him....
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you've been served!
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One day a long line of people stood outside the pearly gates of Heaven waiting to get in when all the sudden an airline pilot strolled right by everyone with his roll-aboard and went right through the gates. Everyone in line started complaining to St. Peter "Hey why does he get to cut?!". He replied "Oh that's just God he's pretending he's a pilot".
Find a joke like that about a doctor:cool: |
I respect doctors, but they don't belong on a pedestal JUST because they're a doctor. They aren't BETTER then pilots. Plenty of doctors KILL themselves flying airplanes. I don't see how since apparently it's WAAAAY easier to be a pilot. Some people. Reasons why I'd rather be a pilot: 1. An airplane doesn't snap at you for having cold hands. 2. The view never gets old (or cranky for that matter). 3. People don't get scared if I put on gloves. 4. Get to wear aviators. 5. You can't do sudoku while making a grown man cry with a single finger. 6. You can gather and talk about that time you slammed her so hard you almost didn't walk away. 7. Asking for "heading" won't get you a sexual harassment suit. 8. Never have to lie about why you were "working late". 9. Fatigue calls 10. can start a story with "So there I was!" |
Originally Posted by UnlimitedAkro
(Post 529405)
Pilots vs. Doctors. Would this be a boxing match? Wrestling? Octagon? I say pilots win all three.
I'll give you one thing pilots and doctors have in common, and that's both have a tendency towards arrogance. The routine surgery or flight should run like clockwork and not require a life-saving heroic intervention, but it's our skills as professionals that we fallback on if needed to save the day. Comparing job duties and responsibilities to compensation is an immature comparison. If we were compensated based on the amount of lives we were responsible for then policemen, firefighters, and military personnel would be compensated ALOT more then all of us. |
Why does it have to be pilots VERSUS doctors?
I think that most people bring up the question of pilots versus doctors because they feel defensive. We love flying and can not see ourselves doing anything else. Then, somebody comes along and denigrates our profession; or maybe after hearing a bunch of doom-and-gloom, we begin to second-guess ourselves and question the worth of flying for a living. In defense, we compare it to something like being a doctor, to show that both professions have their own complexities, similarities, etc. Relating flying to a career that is held in very high esteem almost universally can serve as a way of educating people who do not understand what we do of it's actual dangers and complexities, or of falsely boosting our own self-esteem.
Why do we feel the need to do this? Why can't we just accept each career for what it is and be happy about it? Comparing flying to a completely different career is neither fair to whomever you're talking with nor to yourself. Yes, both professionals hold many lives in their hands and have gone through extensive training, but that is about where the similarities end. Neither person will walk away from the encounter feeling better. Both are great professions with their own, unique perks. We have breath-taking views and beautiful airplanes that provide endless hours of entertainment; doctors have the ability to interact directly and intimately with someone else's life. From a utilitarian standpoint :rolleyes:, both are necessary for the economic globe to keep rotating. I think that if people can be more content with what they have, and better understand and cope with the downside(s) of their careers, they would be much happier in any path they take. I take this quotation from one of my favorite movies - The Godfather II - "This is the business we've chosen." We know what comes with the territory, so we deal with it and take pride in our work. We don't feel the need to compare ourselves or make the job seem any more simple or complex than it really is. Then, we will be appreciating flying for what it truly is; not for what we want other people to think it is. /rant . . . let the flaming begin :o |
Originally Posted by DeadHead
(Post 529746)
If we were compensated based on the amount of lives we were responsible for then policemen, firefighters, and military personnel would be compensated ALOT more then all of us. Cops essentially never saves lives. They either prevent crime just by being there and doing their job, or investigate the crime after the fact. Firefighters save lives, and most are VERY well compensated at least in my neck of the woods. They get a lot of time off too... On any given day, an airline pilot's job performance saves more lives than any other profession. Reference CA 5191. No other profession can account for that much carnage, unless a strike-fighter pilot accidentally bombs a mosque on Friday night (that would actually be considered collateral damage, ie the cost of doing business). |
I feel that the responsibility of a pilot flying sevral hundered people over a crowded city is not appreciated enough.
However, many jobs have lives in the balance. Multiple lives. In the example below, 114 dead, and 200 injured. All due to engineering/construction. Engineer and contractor failed to realize the implications of a design change. Hyatt Regency walkway collapse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Rather graphic ABC news coverage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDWdnvWrlKE |
I cant think of any doctors who had to perform emergency surgery on someone while wearing an oxygen mask and goggles, trying to communicate with everyone in the room, while the building around them is burning to the ground and they have minutes to finish everything up safely before we all burn alive.
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But Akro, how many times does a doctor have to make a split second decision to administer a drug or not? How to to stop someone from bleeding out? Yes their lives themselves might not be in the balance, but a patients life is just as important. Just saying it's not a direct comparison, but rather an examination of similar circumstances.
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pilots tend to think there are 2 types of people in this world pilots and trash. -a doctor
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Originally Posted by UnlimitedAkro
(Post 530110)
I cant think of any doctors who had to perform emergency surgery on someone while wearing an oxygen mask and goggles, trying to communicate with everyone in the room, while the building around them is burning to the ground and they have minutes to finish everything up safely before we all burn alive.
That is the acid test in aviation. Not all pilots have been there either. Medicine is a higher-level profession than aviation in terms of entry requirements, training, and complexity. But medical ability does not translate to the cockpit...doctors often die in airplanes because... - They can afford high-performance equipment. - They may be too busy to maintain the proper currency. - High-performance equipment leads to riskier missions (XC, IMC, etc). - Some doctors think their medical ability under pressure will translate to the cockpit...it does not unless they maintain currency (I don't mean FAR currency). |
Doctor Bait
For some reason pilots like to try and compare themselves to Doctors. Someone wrote something once comparing flying an ILS with preforming brain surgery. The two are not related at all.
It takes six months and some King tapes to become a professional pilot. Even when trying to compare a professional pilot with a barber it is a stretch. :) SkyHigh |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531377)
That's a key factor. Doctors perform complicated tasks under pressure, but not the kind of pressure that comes from fearing for your own life.
Let's not even get into the issue of medicals and recurrent training (which docs only have to complete every few years according to a friend who's an oncologist). Docs are undoubtedly under immense pressure at times, just like a pilot, but when you deviate from normal ops, pilots have it worse. |
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
(Post 531388)
For some reason pilots like to try and compare themselves to Doctors. Someone wrote something once comparing flying an ILS with preforming brain surgery. The two are not related at all.
It takes six months and some King tapes to become a professional pilot. Even when trying to compare a professional pilot with a barber it is a stretch. :) SkyHigh Professional pilot = barber? No....myth busted. USMCFLYR |
Originally Posted by normajean21
(Post 531311)
pilots tend to think there are 2 types of people in this world pilots and trash. -a doctor
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
(Post 531388)
For some reason pilots like to try and compare themselves to Doctors. Someone wrote something once comparing flying an ILS with preforming brain surgery. The two are not related at all.
It takes six months and some King tapes to become a professional pilot. Even when trying to compare a professional pilot with a barber it is a stretch. :) SkyHigh Don't be ridiculous SkyHigh. One may be able to obtain their Commercial certificate in 6 months, but it's unlikely that one will obtain a 121 job that quickly. You of all people should know this. |
Shouldn't you all be flying????
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 535665)
One may be able to obtain their Commercial certificate in 6 months, but it's unlikely that one will obtain a 121 job that quickly.
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I wouldn't trust a non-pilot doctor to fly me around just the same as I wouldn't trust a non-doctor pilot to slice me open. If you're a doctor and a pilot, then kudos to you for having more cajones and dedication than me. Either way we're both too much in debt for something I'm sure both groups are equally passionate about. Ahh the beauty of student loans. At least we only need 4 years of school instead of 12 though :)
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 535665)
Don't be ridiculous SkyHigh. One may be able to obtain their Commercial certificate in 6 months, but it's unlikely that one will obtain a 121 job that quickly. You of all people should know this.
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Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
(Post 536172)
Shouldn't you all be flying????
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 536195)
Well, not in 2009 anyway.
Originally Posted by captain152
(Post 536984)
If you had said that 2 years ago everyone would have laughed in your face ... now days ... you're absolutely right
Yeah, I was going to put that in as the exception but it's kind of a moot point. I don't think it will be happening again anytime soon. |
Doctors learning from Pilots
From NBC Nightly News (14 Jan 09)
Doctor's acting like pilots in the operating room; There are 100,000 preventable deaths and post-operation complications every year in hospitals across the US. Doctors are taking a page from pilots in the use of checklists for pre-surgery and even during surgery. The surgeon will come in to speak to the patient and check name, medical problem/procedure and even use his signature to mark the area of concern (left hip for example). A current study had hoped to find enough patients to show a 15% decrease but the study has shown a 36% decrease in deaths and complication. Before the surgery, the circulating nurse will check the identification of the surgeon and then at some point call a time-out and check with everyone once more on all critical aspects of the surgery. One good aspect of this according to the doctors in the study is the hierarchy is flattened out in the opearting room and anyone can speak up at anytime if they have any questions on any plan or procedure (think CRM in the way that the surgeon is no longer the only voice in the opearting room) It seems that two professions can learn from each other. Bravo! NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com USMCFLYR PS.....imagine pilots making mistakes that result in 100,000 injuries or deaths per year!:eek: It makes me appreciate that other news story about US airlines not having a single fatality in over two years. Way to go professionals! |
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
(Post 531388)
For some reason pilots like to try and compare themselves to Doctors. Someone wrote something once comparing flying an ILS with preforming brain surgery. The two are not related at all.
It takes six months and some King tapes to become a professional pilot. Even when trying to compare a professional pilot with a barber it is a stretch. :) SkyHigh fbh |
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