F172Driver

This is my first post, but I've been an avid reader for sometime now, so here goes. Can anyone please explain to me why the cirrus jet will only do "about 300kts" Cirrus website. A jet going that slow?! A king air can do that, so why buy the jet when I can get a much bigger and more useful king air. Im probably missing something, its pretty early and I didn't get much sleep but I can't see any reason other then a higher ceiling to buy the cirrus jet over a king air.

rickair7777

Is that 300 TAS? I assume so.

When you think of jet speed, there are several components to that...

- A turbojet/turbofan engine is required, because props have inherent speed limits due to blade aerodynamics. A turbine engine can also be desirable for reasons other than speed...reliability, high power-to-weight ratio, easy to find fuel, simple to operate.

- You also need a swept wing, not s straigth one like most prop airplanes and a few low-end (citation, VLJ) or special purpose (A-10) jets.

- To get the real speed benefit you need to get up into the higher flight levels to enjoy the reduced drag from the less-dense air. This requires a stronger (heavier & more expensive) hull for more differential pressure and a more robust pressurization system.

The cirrus looks to have a straight wing, which would be more efficient and provide slower TO/LDG speeds if you are not planning on going that fast anyway. It is probably not a high-altitude bird either.

Pilotpip

I'm pretty sure the stall speed is required to be below 61 kts because it's single engine.

F172, it's all about the mission. Why buy a King Air that only does 250kts (B90s) with two engines to maintain, and a bunch of extra seats if it's only going to be one or two people and trips under 1000nm. Then there's the fact that it's a jet.

FlyJSH

Single engine, limiting it to FL250, straight wing, and not too fast makes it much easier for an owner pilot to insure.

jedinein

You're going to get a better value and a heck of a lot better post-sale customer support with the King Air. Insurance is just as easy for both, except you'll need a multi-engine rating for the King Air.

ovrtake92

Those are all great questions and I am inclined to wonder the point of it all myself. However I think that GA is moving ever so steadily toward this sort of method. In my opinion it is just the next step toward modernization of the system as a whole. Smaller, cheaper, easier to maintain and hopefully safer. We will see how well the industry compensates for less experienced pilots using more advanced aircraft. I know that after 4000 hours in turboprops and other small ga planes, I found it a huge leap to fly a jet. How wet behind the ears pilots with a few hundred hours are going to step up to single pilot jet operations is beyond my simple mind!

ryan1234

The only question is the market which the jet appeals to... the group of people... (doctors, lawyers (except vagabond), big wigs) - and we've seen their track record...

Maybe they'll hire some young furloughed FOs to fly them around?

F172Driver

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this, its been a crazy few days.

Rickair, as far as the airspeed is concerned, 300kts is all the cirrus website says so probably 300 true, still not all that fast for a jet. Also per the cirrus website the approach speeds are similar to the SR22, so that could be useful in short field ops assuming it can stop quickly and get airborne in a short distance. So count one for the cirrus jet. I didn't really consider the mission Pilotpip, I see where the jet could fit the one owner/pilot fairly well, so another one for the cirrus jet. But it does have 7 seats, so im guessing with all of those filled it couldn't really haul much fuel. On the other hand with full fuel im betting not too many people or bags will be going flying. So it seems like it would be perfectly suited for the one or two private owners flying for pleasure. Im making those bets based on my own understanding of the jet, flying planes in general, and im sad to say.........wikipedia.
But beyond this limited role, and being able to say I own a jet, which is gonna sell jets, im still drawing a blank. Im not trying to hate on the jet, and I wish the Cirrus guys the best of luck, but I just can't see that big of a market share for the jet.

FlyJSH

When Cessna changed the tail on the 172 from square to swept the airplane slowed two or three knots and rudder effectiveness decreased. And Cessna's sales doubled.

Sex sells.... and those propeller planes are soooooo dangerous!

Ewfflyer

The point is the Cirrus isn't targeted for the business market at all. It's even refered to as a "personal" jet. The 300ktas is to draw in the fact that it's 100+kts faster than their piston planes, the FL250 also practically will double the altitude that most previous Cirrus pilots have flown, and it's single-engine, so these guys don't have to go get their multi-rating and build a ton of hours to move up. All these statistics are not meant to be compared to other turbine aircraft, as this is a completely "new" market. I'm not sure of the range, but I'm betting it's no better than the Meridian.

Personally I'm waiting to see how the PiperJet performs and if/when it makes it to market. I see it as being a true contender in the light jet market to be used as both a business tool and personal transport type of aircraft. It also appeals to the single-engine guys because that's all they have known, and are very comfortable with only one engine. It's supposed to hit 360KTAS at FL350 ceiling on about 72gph. I still say not bad for a single-engine aircraft, but I know that still doesn't compare to some of the more powerful and faster turbines out there, but I think it'll hold it's own. Time will tell, but everyone's got to survive the downturn here before any true advancement will take place.