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Winged Wheeler 04-22-2009 07:26 PM

Happy Earth Day
 
The last eco-thread was a bit hostile in tenor. I'll take the hit for that, I gave the thread a confrontational title and so it went.

There is considerable back and forth in the discussions of the issues of the environment--lots of passion, many facts, even more opinions.

I have provided a link below to the sworn testimony of Lord Monckton to the US House subcommittee on Energy and Environment. The text is too long to post it here. It takes about 20 minutes to read and includes fifty "red flags"--specific instances of fraud, misrepresentation, or intellectual dishonesty by those who've pushed the global warming agenda.

Global Warming Science and Public Policy - Letter to Represenatives Ed Markey & Joe Barton

I think Lord Monckton is spot on. I think the temperature on Earth has almost everything to do with the sun, and almost nothing to do with industrial emissions by humans. Even if you completely disagree, I'd like to hear your logic and your refutations of Monckton's points.

By the way, the sun is as quiet as it's been in a century:

The Press Association: Sun 'at its quietest for 100 years'

WW

jungle 04-22-2009 07:39 PM

There is nothing quite so grand as the merger of junk science and junk economics to put a damper on the worlds economy. You realize by letting the truth out of the bag you are closing a major avenue to greater government regulation, control and most importantly-revenue collection.

The best fix proposed recently was to kill all of the penguins and position them beak up so that their light colored underbellies might reflect more of the sun's harmful rays. As practical and romantic as any solution I have heard so far, how dare the sun mock our world leaders.

Pilotpip 04-22-2009 07:42 PM

Regardless of if you believe in global warming, climate change, or whatever they're calling it these days I think we can all agree that there's nothing wrong with recycling and reducing our consumption to help those that are here after us.

Winged Wheeler 04-22-2009 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungle (Post 599718)
There is nothing quite so grand as the merger of junk science and junk economics to put a damper on the worlds economy. You realize by letting the truth out of the bag you are closing a major avenue to greater government regulation, control and most importantly-revenue collection.

The best fix proposed recently was to kill all of the penguins and position them beak up so that their light colored underbellies might reflect more of the sun's harmful rays. As practical and romantic as any solution I have heard so far, how dare the sun mock our world leaders.

There is a poll on a weather/climate website where I frequently am. We are voting what to call the impending solar minimum should it lapse into a deep minimum (the Maunder minimum was associated with the little ice age.) Gore minimum is one of the choices. The best one though was suggested by another poster: The Inconvenient Minimum.

Brilliant.

WW

jungle 04-22-2009 08:35 PM

Perhaps this will be of comfort:YouTube - Deteriorata slide show


And let us not forget the heartwarming story of one of the founding fathers of Earth Day:




Background
Einhorn was active in ecological groups and was an icon of the counterculture, anti-establishment and anti-war movements of the 1960s and 1970s. At one time, he was a friend and contemporary of Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman. He also claimed to have been instrumental in creating Earth Day in 1970, and during the first Earth Day event, which was televised globally, Ira Einhorn was on stage as master of ceremonies, although other event organizers dispute his account.[1] He was known to some of his friends as "the Unicorn" because the name Einhorn (a German-Jewish name) means "unicorn".

Born into a middle-class Jewish family, Einhorn studied at the University of Pennsylvania and had a five-year relationship with Holly Maddux, a graduate of Bryn Mawr College who was originally from Tyler, Texas. In 1977, Maddux broke up with Einhorn. She went to New York City and became involved with Saul Lapidus. When Einhorn found out about this, he angrily called Maddux to come back to Philadelphia to retrieve her belongings. She went back to Philadelphia, but was never seen in public again.

When questioned, Einhorn told police that Maddux had left to go to the store but never came back. His alibi began to crack, however, when neighbors began to complain about a foul odor coming from Einhorn's Powelton Village apartment. Eighteen months later, Maddux's decomposing corpse was found by police in a trunk stored in a closet in Einhorn's apartment. Einhorn's bail was set at $40,000 at the request of his attorney, Arlen Specter; Einhorn was released from custody in advance of his trial by paying 10% of the bond's value, or $4,000. This bail was paid, not by Einhorn, but by Barbara Bronfman, a Montreal socialite and a member of the family that owns the Seagram liquor company.

In 1981, just days before his murder trial was to begin, Einhorn skipped bail and fled to Europe. Einhorn traveled in Europe for the next 16 years, along the way marrying a Swedish woman named Annika Flodin. Back in Pennsylvania, as Einhorn had already been arraigned, the state convicted him in absentia in 1993 for the murder of Maddux. Einhorn was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
wiki

MD10PLT 04-22-2009 11:32 PM

It's all about control. The EPA just declared CO2 as a dangerous pollutant. This leads the way for them to control everything that emits CO2.

EPA's CO2 Ruling May Have Huge Impact - Science & Health news | Newser

Virtually everything in the world emits CO2.

Just saw a report; obese people emit more CO2 than thin people.

Winged Wheeler 04-23-2009 04:42 AM

very reasonably said
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotpip (Post 599723)
Regardless of if you believe in global warming, climate change, or whatever they're calling it these days I think we can all agree that there's nothing wrong with recycling and reducing our consumption to help those that are here after us.

I can't speak for everyone, but I bet a lot of the "deniers" would agree with me when I say that we don't pour our oil into the storm sewer, we don't throw old batteries in the campfire, etc.

There is nothing wrong, as you say, with recycling or reduction of comsumption. There is also nothing that necessarily connects either of these things with helping future generations. If recycling some item is economically or energy inefficient it is wasteful. That would tend, on a large scale, to impoverish future generations.

Environmentalists have a tendancy not to want to debate things like this--thay want me to be satisfied with "all recycling is good", and when I am not, they have a statist urge to pass laws to force me to comply.

Recycling should be taken, case by case, on the product's own merits. Some recycling is efficient and productive, some recycling is inefficient and wasteful.

There is nothing worse for the environment than large groups of people whose basic economic needs are not being met.

WW

Winged Wheeler 04-23-2009 04:44 AM

How much carbon in a belly roll?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MD10PLT (Post 599870)
It's all about control. The EPA just declared CO2 as a dangerous pollutant. This leads the way for them to control everything that emits CO2.

EPA's CO2 Ruling May Have Huge Impact - Science & Health news | Newser

Virtually everything in the world emits CO2.

Just saw a report; obese people emit more CO2 than thin people.

I'l bet they sequester more carbon as well.

WW

johnnysnow 04-23-2009 06:01 AM

I saw a Global Warming segment on CNN many years back. I've been looking for a clip of it online to post for a couple years now, but have been unable to locate it. I'm sure it's collecting dust in storage, or by now destroyed. I will attempt to paraphrase:

Setup: News Anchor is interviewing one of the most renowned (her words) climatologists on the planet via satellite. Apparently the producer failed to do some homework on this guy because what happened next was hilarious.

Anchor: "So in fact the planet is warming up you say?"

Climatologist: "Yes"

Anchor: "And it's your belief that this can be attributed to the emission of green house gases?"

Climatologist: "Absolutely not, on the contrary, these have very little to do with the normal cyclical temperature changes of the planet."

Anchor: (with the distinct look of panic on her face, long pause as cameras focused on her. Finally, you see her listening to something in her ear piece and...) "Isn't it true that your research is funded by the oil industry?"

I swear this is what she said, couldn't make this stuff up.

Climatologist: "No, most of my research money comes from the federal government through grants, like most research scientists...."

Anchor: "Thanks for being with us today."

Satellite feed goes dead before he can say anymore and CNN goes to commercial.

I sat there going "What just happened?" "Did they just cut that guy off?"

Couldn't believe my eyes. Haven't watched CNN since.

KC10 FATboy 04-23-2009 07:12 PM

Even the Aussie's agree ... the ice isn't melting !!!

18APR2009
Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | World News | News.com.au


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