Climategate
12-01-2009, 02:05 PM
#13
Libertarian Resistance
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 757 FO
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by Kasserine06
This sucks! These scientists are just as bad as the people who think everything is going fine and we should not bother changing anything we do until the free market dictates. It doesn’t matter anymore what the data says because no one will trust scientific data anymore because it has become political. As usual, the fate of many will be dictated by the extremists. We went from thinking ½ the population of the world would be underwater in 50 years to sticking our head in the sand and not thinking about the planet at all.
The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. The pollution we put into our planet is definitely not good and will affect it, but it probably won’t flood us or put us in an ice age anytime soon. Though, this does not mean that we shouldn’t bother to invest in alternative energy. It will take decades to really implement new energy sources and we can’t just wait for the free market to force us to do it because the infrastructure needs to be in place before the free market is ready for alternative energy. It is the chicken before the egg thing. One day the free market will want a chicken, but we never made the egg.
This will have far greater implications too. From now on, whenever scientific data is used on anything remotely political, opponents will only have to say that the data could have been tampered or altered and that data has no value. I believe we will enter an age where emotions will count for more than facts or data.
The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. The pollution we put into our planet is definitely not good and will affect it, but it probably won’t flood us or put us in an ice age anytime soon. Though, this does not mean that we shouldn’t bother to invest in alternative energy. It will take decades to really implement new energy sources and we can’t just wait for the free market to force us to do it because the infrastructure needs to be in place before the free market is ready for alternative energy. It is the chicken before the egg thing. One day the free market will want a chicken, but we never made the egg.
This will have far greater implications too. From now on, whenever scientific data is used on anything remotely political, opponents will only have to say that the data could have been tampered or altered and that data has no value. I believe we will enter an age where emotions will count for more than facts or data.
Science, as it is understood in the Western tradition, must be both verifiable and falsifiable. That means you have to put your data out there to be reviewed. If you don't, it's not science.
If this sordid episode causes a newly skeptical public to demand that "you show me your work" then science will be improved.
Do not worry then--good science is good science. The irrational can refuse to believe the results, but if they cannot disprove the results, then they are just venting gas.
WW
12-01-2009, 08:26 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,838
Heyas,
In this case, everyone who says "follow the money" is dead on. And corporate goons aren't the only culprits. Universities make bank on grants for research, and many professor's pay is based on the number and amount of grants that they pull in.
Read "State of Fear"...fiction, surely, but probably pretty close to the mark.
Nu
In this case, everyone who says "follow the money" is dead on. And corporate goons aren't the only culprits. Universities make bank on grants for research, and many professor's pay is based on the number and amount of grants that they pull in.
Read "State of Fear"...fiction, surely, but probably pretty close to the mark.
Nu
12-02-2009, 04:33 AM
#16
Retired
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: whale wrangler
Posts: 3,527
might be wrong on this
Originally Posted by HoursHore
I was looking at easy bake ovens for my daughter and wondered How is this thing going to work after they get rid of incandescent bulbs? Those fluorescent corkscrews won't cook a little cupcake!
Word to the wise -STOCK up on incandescent bulbs .
Fred
12-02-2009, 04:55 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 490
Hmmm, so a few hacked emails, selectively disseminated and released just prior to the Copenhagen summit make a "gate"? Are these emails just spirited internal debate, or is it indeed evidence of some vast conspiracy by all the world's climate scientists, who, for the past few decades have all been in some coordinated collusion to dupe everyone just so they can continue to receive their mega-bilion dollar grants and live like the rock stars they are?
Since it is easier to just make up a stupid conspiracy when there was none before, I'll start one of my own: Roger Ailes hired the hackers himself. "Go forth and spread BS."
Since it is easier to just make up a stupid conspiracy when there was none before, I'll start one of my own: Roger Ailes hired the hackers himself. "Go forth and spread BS."
12-02-2009, 06:39 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: BassTracker
Posts: 664
Once again, these are the type of "Scientists" that tell you we evolved from apes! These are just secular people making their own agenda, and people like al gore making a huge amount of money. Keeping the planet clean by reducing pollution, waste is great. I am all for it. Trying to "save" the planet is giving *man* way to much credit.
12-02-2009, 07:13 AM
#19
Working Class Dog
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Spares Pusher
Posts: 1,668
Just in time for Hopenhagen
Australia's Parliament defeats global warming bill
SYDNEY – Australia's plans for an emissions trading system to combat global warming were scuttled Wednesday in Parliament, handing a defeat to a government that had hoped to set an example at international climate change talks next week.
The Senate, where Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's government does not hold a majority, rejected his administration's proposal for Australia to become one of the first countries to install a so-called cap-and-trade system to slash the amount of heat-trapping pollution that industries pump into the air.
The 41-33 vote followed a tumultuous debate in which the conservative main opposition party at first agreed to support a version of the government's bill, then dramatically dumped its leader and switched sides after bitter divisions erupted within the party.
Balance of story: Australia's Parliament defeats global warming bill - Yahoo! News
Written by: ROHAN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Writer Rohan Sullivan, Associated Press Writer – Wed Dec 2, 2:45 am ET
On the same subject, Jon Stewart:
http://storyballoon.org/videos/jon-s...d-climategate/
Language bleeped.
SYDNEY – Australia's plans for an emissions trading system to combat global warming were scuttled Wednesday in Parliament, handing a defeat to a government that had hoped to set an example at international climate change talks next week.
The Senate, where Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's government does not hold a majority, rejected his administration's proposal for Australia to become one of the first countries to install a so-called cap-and-trade system to slash the amount of heat-trapping pollution that industries pump into the air.
The 41-33 vote followed a tumultuous debate in which the conservative main opposition party at first agreed to support a version of the government's bill, then dramatically dumped its leader and switched sides after bitter divisions erupted within the party.
Balance of story: Australia's Parliament defeats global warming bill - Yahoo! News
Written by: ROHAN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Writer Rohan Sullivan, Associated Press Writer – Wed Dec 2, 2:45 am ET
On the same subject, Jon Stewart:
http://storyballoon.org/videos/jon-s...d-climategate/
Language bleeped.
Last edited by 11Fan; 12-02-2009 at 07:29 AM.
12-02-2009, 07:54 AM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Baron B-55 Left Seat
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by chignutsak
Hmmm, so a few hacked emails, selectively disseminated and released just prior to the Copenhagen summit make a "gate"? Are these emails just spirited internal debate, or is it indeed evidence of some vast conspiracy by all the world's climate scientists, who, for the past few decades have all been in some coordinated collusion to dupe everyone just so they can continue to receive their mega-bilion dollar grants and live like the rock stars they are?
Since it is easier to just make up a stupid conspiracy when there was none before, I'll start one of my own: Roger Ailes hired the hackers himself. "Go forth and spread BS."
Since it is easier to just make up a stupid conspiracy when there was none before, I'll start one of my own: Roger Ailes hired the hackers himself. "Go forth and spread BS."
Um i dont necessarily think it was a massive conspiracy as in they all knew about it and it was organized.
I do however think that once they saw the checks rolling in the played along with it.
