pilots on food stamps!
 

Pilots on Food Stamps | MichaelMoore.com

By Michael Moore

Michael Moore
 

Pick a thread....

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/se...archid=1069808

I was afraid of how true it was...i knew i couldnt of been the first

I get food stamps and both our children are on medicaid. I'm not proud of it, but if the program is out there I need to take advantage of it while I'm making all $24,000 a year.

The article says that one pilot took a second job as a "dog walker" - how exactly do you get a job as a "dog walker"?

On another note... the food stamp thing is a little ridiculous...

I hear what you are saying Ryan, as far as tightening the belt and all. Also I am no fan of Michael Moore, who is referenced in this thread's original post. I believe he is a snake oil salesman, selling only the extreme viewpoint, and editing his gathered video and facts to fit his desired statement.

That being said, I do have to wonder about your response stating that "the food stamp thing is a little ridiculous".
I am not wanting to pick a political fight here, as I know that is against the APCF terms of service, but I do feel somewhat strongly that there does need to be a counter argument to your statement.

Specifically, I don't feel qualified to judge anyone's necessity for claiming a benefit. I have to wonder how qualified you are to judge another American citizen's desire to feed themselves, or their family. I would also state that if a pilot has been paying state and or federal taxes, they have contributed to the program they are now claiming from. Honestly, I do not know where most food stamps come from, or are specifically funded, although in Alaska I believe they are a state program. To me, it seems as if you would also advocate not claiming social security upon reaching the end of your working life, or unemployment insurance after an unexpected layoff. Both of those are programs which you have contributed to if you've ever earned a paycheck.

I understand the whole desire for self reliance, and freedom from government intrusion. I do not understand the impetus behind denying or ridiculing another American for claiming the help at feeding themselves and their family from a program which they have most likely contributed to financially through their working life.

I know there are exceptions to this, but I would caution you to not judge too harshly until you too have walked the same walk in the same shoes.

Respectfully,
KT

I'll have to agree with you, it did come off a little harsh in hind sight... however....I'll try to give sort of an explanation of what I said.

I've seen some interesting things around my parts, and I suppose it's probably similar to other places. You have a pilot who has either been laid off or just not really making much as a pilot. He refuses to get another job, whether it be waiting tables or what not...because well he's a pilot and that job is below him. Everyday he comes to the airport and complains about not making enough... he gets laid off from his flying job... and his first action is to file for government benefits and other freebies.

Then you have your newly-wed guy who is working a full-time job and going to school full-time (but because he doesn't fit the profile, he doesn't qualify for too much student aid, other than federally subsidized loans), and he's got all of his ratings, which he paid for himself at the local FBO by working two jobs... he's got a decent chunk of hours from various contract work, but it's just that... contract work... no guarantees for the future. Rather than just complain, he continues to bartend at night... works at the airport in the morning - thanks to internet classes, goes to school at 3-4am and various time during the day.

Could that newly-wed guy (who paid for the wedding by selling his car, and getting a cheaper one) have taken a job making $17k? Of course... it probably wouldn't have been that bad, because of the 0-debt from flight training... especially with a supportive wife. Either way that college guy is eligible for food stamps... but he knows that he doesn't really believe in them if he can provide for himself (even if that means outside of flying).

Is it my position to judge? No not really... but these people do have a choice of taking out a rather large loan to pay for flight training and take that $17k/year job.... I just don't think that taxpayers should have to pay for someone who could otherwise get another job and/or make better decisions.

If you have kids... that's totally different. Kids need food regardless.. If you have a family to provide for...it's a little different, but that $17k job, however shiny the jet looks is probably not a good move.

Respectfully,

Ryan

Roger that Ryan, good copy and I agree with what you've written above.

I guess my problem with some of the perceived bias against those who claim benefits comes from a sort of closet liberal in me.

Damn closet liberal! I am trying to move past what is perceived as independent, if that is possible. I hope to someday describe myself as Egalitarian. I think the Founding Fathers were all about that.

Enough about political labels as they set off alarms here.:)

Food stamps, social security, etc.
I mean, we contributed to these programs, right? So my thinking usually goes as follows- having contributed, these programs should be available when needed.

I think you're just a nice guy. Sometimes I forget that some people are actually in need. Unfortunately, though... I think the programs are used more for political leverage, rather than real benefit or charity. ...guess that's a topic for a different forum. Either way, thanks for your input. :)

My viewpoint is, if I'm paying for it there is no shame in using it. The unspoken understanding though is that you better be trying to do as much as you can already to help. I'm only getting $53 a month in food stamps but hey, anything helps.

Let me try to correct some misconceptions.

Food stamps - this is a Federal food program from the Department of Agriculture (USDA), but it is administered by the individual States. It is not welfare, per se, but a program that helps low income people and families buy food. Some time ago, the benefits came to the recipient in a coupon book, but this system was rife with fraud and some people felt it placed a stigma on recipients, most of whom were single women with children. Today, the benefits come in the form of an EBT card which can be used in just about every other state.

Unemployment benefits - this program is most definitely not welfare or public assistance. It is funded entirely (like 100%) by employers. Employees do NOT pay into this insurance fund. It is meant as a temporary assistance for those furloughed or separated from their jobs while they look for another job. Do a search on the forums for my long, drawn out discourse on unemployment benefits.

So, having said all that, and being a small business owner right now, I say that the real problem is not the unemployed collecting benefits or the old collecting Social Security or the disabled collecting SSI. What this country needs is jobs creation. I am not sure how to achieve that. As everyone knows, I did hire a barista, but had to lay him off because daily revenue was not enough to pay him, let alone pay for the cost of goods, utilities, rent or a salary for myself. Olympia (WA's capital) threatens to increase taxes, including sales tax and payroll taxes. This will result in more layoffs as business will not be able to meet those higher taxes.

I will be the first one to hire 2 or 3 people if the revenue justifies it. But as it is, the few customers I have are either unemployed, underemployed, retired or disabled, and therefore do not have two dimes to rub together. The really sad thing is that many of my customers do not even have paper money; they pay me entirely with coins they scrounged from sofa seats.

Check out this article (Aging boomers face stark economics - CNBC TV- msnbc.com) about boomers falling into permanent hard times. I worry about everyone's future, particularly the young people. What is this world coming to?

Sometimes the temptation to blame others for the problems we experience may seem overwhelming and quite reasonable, but ultimately we are each accountable for our own destiny. It is always true that we have to deal with external forces, but these exist in a general sense for everyone.
The real battle is fought inside each of us and saying that the blame lies outside of ourselves is an escape.


Erich Fromm- philosopher, psychologist and student of the human condition thought about this at length:

Fromm believed that freedom was an aspect of human nature that we either embrace or escape. He observed that embracing our freedom of will was healthy, whereas escaping freedom through the use of escape mechanisms was the root of psychological conflicts. Three main escape mechanisms that Fromm outlined are automaton conformity, authoritarianism, and destructiveness. Automaton conformity is changing one's ideal self to what is perceived as the preferred type of personality of society, losing one's true self. The use of automaton conformity displaces the burden of choice from the self to society. Authoritarianism is allowing oneself to be controlled by another. This removes the freedom of choice almost entirely by submitting that freedom to someone else. Lastly, destructiveness is any process which attempts to eliminate others or the world as a whole to escape freedom. Fromm said that "the destruction of the world is the last, almost desperate attempt to save myself from being crushed by it" (1941).


Just something to think about.