F-16 stall speed?
 

Could've been a factor...

NORAD: U.S. jets intercept ultralight plane from Mexico – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Could've been a factor in what?
It isn't like the F-16s are/were trying to fly formation on the Ultralight.

USMCFLYR

Just struck me as funny...
16's overflying/circling a 45mph craft...
"There he is- where'd he go ?"

Wonder if it was a druggie testing a new means of delivery?

Sad thing is we spent several thousand dollars following a guy burning 3 gallons an hour.

Or maybe just some dude who was lost.

Not a factor. I know you're not going to believe this but we do have procedures to deal with this situation...:rolleyes:

Like,uh, accidental A/B wake turbulence?

A/B wake turbulence? Are you trying to say Afterburner wake turbulence or did you mean to say A/C wake turbulence - as in Aircraft?

Regardless of the kind of wake turbulence - accidental wake turbulence on who's part?

Sorry I'm not getting it here; but I'm just trying to understand where your concern lies.

USMCFLYR

I think he may be referring to an incident where a flight of F-4's intercepted a Beech Bonanza and knocked him out of the sky when they overshot him and ripped his tail off with AB turbulence.

That was years ago and I believe that it was off the coast of Florida.

Turns out that the Bonanza was on a flight plan and talking to ATC a complete FUBAR on somebodies part.

That's my guess anyway..

Sounds like a problem from many different angles!

The airflow around two different aircraft can certainly be a problem - especially when talking about aircraft of vastly different capabilities.
There was a Class A mishap with two fatalities when a T-34C tried to take a look at an F-14's gear after the TomCat reported a gear problem when he lowerd his gear at NAS Corpus Christi back in '91.
The T-34 IP was a former F-14 guy I heard and he had a Marine SNA with him. He offered up a visual inspection. The T-34 just got to close and WHAM! - sucked right up into the F-14 (at least that is what the SIR came up with) :(

Well....I can't imagine, unless for some REALLY close observation, that there would be any reason to be getting very close to the other aircraft :confused:

USMCFLYR

F-104 was pulled over on it's back and into the XB-70 that crashed by the wingtip vorticies. That was the theory anyway.

By the way, for all those asking, intercepting an ultralight is not that hard. It can be done from any altitude. He may not have even known he was being followed. You think it's that hard to orbit above him and watch him on the FLIR? Or with mk1 mod0 eyeballs?

What are you trying to get at? If it's the F-4 mentioned above, that's a bit before my time in fighters...As a guy who has CAP'd DC and sat alert in defense of the NCR, I'd say don't go where you shouldn't and you probably won't have to worry.

It was in the clouds they overshot and got way to close was how I remembered it.

But it was long time ago...

Actually they kissed.


http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-07.pdf


Fighters can easily track slower aircraft with a weave, hi yoyo or orbit. They can also damage light aircraft with their wake. A fighter produces a large wake in proportion to it's size due to high wing loading. Add a high G loading and a fighter can produce a wake equal in power to an airliner. This has proven harmful to light aircraft in many instances.

Nvermind my facts are wrong. It was a Baron not a Bonanza it was during daylight hours and it was actually a midair between the intercepting F-4 and the Baron not a wake turbulence incident.

But I guess they were close enough to ID him......

Here is the NTSB report.

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-07.pdf

Jungle you posted as I was posting you fast fingered devil you!!!!!:cool:

You were only four minutes late. I just happened to have a prior interest in this incident.

Turtle speed
 

I had an opportunity to observe this from the back seat of an F-4 chase plane during an F-16 "high AOA" test mission. No way we could have matched his (lack of) airspeed.

You can't match the speed. You can move around it, with any number of tactics. The hawk kills doves with a four to one speed advantage.

Thrust to weight and max AOA play a large part in fighter to fighter contests.
There is never even a contest when you match a fighter against a light aircraft.

Getting slow in any aircraft is not conducive to long life. Speed is life.

A knife fight in a telephone booth tends to hurt all of the players.

Get slow in a furball and you just become a cherry to be picked.

What's a phone booth?

Something like a mosh pit.:D

Caution: falling airplanes
 

Yes, and the tactic chosen here was a steeply-banked arc above and around the test aircraft, since the primary airspace to be "cleared" was below him. Of course we were in a restricted area, but it was always possible that somebody would be where they shouldn't be. :o

War is hell. And a good thing too, were it not so we might become too fond of it. With apologies to the originator.

Enemies in agreement
 

War is cruel and you cannot refine it.
William Tecumseh Sherman

It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee (1807 - 1870), Statement at the Battle of Fredericksburg (13th December 1862)

What they said. Good find. War is like a Pinata that bleeds when struck instead of dropping little sugary treats on the children.:D

Not concern-just humor..
The word picture created a funny cartoon image in my head.
Learned a lot from the disection that followed,tho!
Thanks!

Unless you're in a slick Hornet, in which case slow speed high AOA, I can still point my nose where I please. All the speed in the world dosen't help if I can keep you bled down defending off my ability to point when/where I please!

(Disclaimer: This assumes 1v1 and doesn't take into account F-15 and F-22 guys, who will convince you and your wife/girflriend that they are superior, and annoy the hell out of you in debrief refering to themselves in the third person)