APC forced to turn over names?
 

I heard that APC was forced to turn over poster's names to airline management. Is there any truth to that rumor?

Why is there an unmarked van across the street and who are those two guys in suits at my door?:)

Nothing's secret on the internet.

No.

If APC was compelled to furnish user email or IP addresses, it would be due to a judge's court order, not a request by an airline management.

That would also imply/require possible criminal activity. Can anyone think of any criminal activity on the board? ie. slander, libel (please not TM), revealing trade secrets, aiding and abetting an enemy combatant, compromising safety?

Rule 45 of Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
 

Let's take this opportunity to familiarize ourselves with Rule 45 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which governs the subpoena and its cousin, subpoena duces tecum.

ADDITION: THERE WILL BE A QUIZ LATER. :)

(a) In General.
(1) Form and Contents.

(A) Requirements — In General. Every subpoena must:

(i) state the court from which it issued;

(ii) state the title of the action, the court in which it is pending, and its civil-action number;

(iii) command each person to whom it is directed to do the following at a specified time and place: attend and testify; produce designated documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things in that person's possession, custody, or control; or permit the inspection of premises; and

(iv) set out the text of Rule 45(c) and (d).

(B) Command to Attend a Deposition — Notice of the Recording Method. A subpoena commanding attendance at a deposition must state the method for recording the testimony.

(C) Combining or Separating a Command to Produce or to Permit Inspection; Specifying the Form for Electronically Stored Information. A command to produce documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things or to permit the inspection of premises may be included in a subpoena commanding attendance at a deposition, hearing, or trial, or may be set out in a separate subpoena. A subpoena may specify the form or forms in which electronically stored information is to be produced.

(D) Command to Produce; Included Obligations. A command in a subpoena to produce documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things requires the responding party to permit inspection, copying, testing, or sampling of the materials.

(2) Issued from Which Court.

A subpoena must issue as follows:

(A) for attendance at a hearing or trial, from the court for the district where the hearing or trial is to be held;

(B) for attendance at a deposition, from the court for the district where the deposition is to be taken; and

(C) for production or inspection, if separate from a subpoena commanding a person's attendance, from the court for the district where the production or inspection is to be made.

(3) Issued by Whom.

The clerk must issue a subpoena, signed but otherwise in blank, to a party who requests it. That party must complete it before service. An attorney also may issue and sign a subpoena as an officer of:

(A) a court in which the attorney is authorized to practice; or

(B) a court for a district where a deposition is to be taken or production is to be made, if the attorney is authorized to practice in the court where the action is pending.

(b) Service.
(1) By Whom; Tendering Fees; Serving a Copy of Certain Subpoenas.

Any person who is at least 18 years old and not a party may serve a subpoena. Serving a subpoena requires delivering a copy to the named person and, if the subpoena requires that person's attendance, tendering the fees for 1 day's attendance and the mileage allowed by law. Fees and mileage need not be tendered when the subpoena issues on behalf of the United States or any of its officers or agencies. If the subpoena commands the production of documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things or the inspection of premises before trial, then before it is served, a notice must be served on each party.

(2) Service in the United States.

Subject to Rule 45(c)(3)(A)(ii), a subpoena may be served at any place:

(A) within the district of the issuing court;

(B) outside that district but within 100 miles of the place specified for the deposition, hearing, trial, production, or inspection;

(C) within the state of the issuing court if a state statute or court rule allows service at that place of a subpoena issued by a state court of general jurisdiction sitting in the place specified for the deposition, hearing, trial, production, or inspection; or

(D) that the court authorizes on motion and for good cause, if a federal statute so provides.

(3) Service in a Foreign Country.

28 U.S.C. § 1783 governs issuing and serving a subpoena directed to a United States national or resident who is in a foreign country.

(4) Proof of Service.

Proving service, when necessary, requires filing with the issuing court a statement showing the date and manner of service and the names of the persons served. The statement must be certified by the server.

(c) Protecting a Person Subject to a Subpoena.
(1) Avoiding Undue Burden or Expense; Sanctions.

A party or attorney responsible for issuing and serving a subpoena must take reasonable steps to avoid imposing undue burden or expense on a person subject to the subpoena. The issuing court must enforce this duty and impose an appropriate sanction — which may include lost earnings and reasonable attorney's fees — on a party or attorney who fails to comply.

(2) Command to Produce Materials or Permit Inspection.

(A) Appearance Not Required. A person commanded to produce documents, electronically stored information, or tangible things, or to permit the inspection of premises, need not appear in person at the place of production or inspection unless also commanded to appear for a deposition, hearing, or trial.

(B) Objections. A person commanded to produce documents or tangible things or to permit inspection may serve on the party or attorney designated in the subpoena a written objection to inspecting, copying, testing or sampling any or all of the materials or to inspecting the premises — or to producing electronically stored information in the form or forms requested. The objection must be served before the earlier of the time specified for compliance or 14 days after the subpoena is served. If an objection is made, the following rules apply:

(i) At any time, on notice to the commanded person, the serving party may move the issuing court for an order compelling production or inspection.

(ii) These acts may be required only as directed in the order, and the order must protect a person who is neither a party nor a party's officer from significant expense resulting from compliance.

(3) Quashing or Modifying a Subpoena.

(A) When Required. On timely motion, the issuing court must quash or modify a subpoena that:

(i) fails to allow a reasonable time to comply;

(ii) requires a person who is neither a party nor a party's officer to travel more than 100 miles from where that person resides, is employed, or regularly transacts business in person — except that, subject to Rule 45(c)(3)(B)(iii), the person may be commanded to attend a trial by traveling from any such place within the state where the trial is held;

(iii) requires disclosure of privileged or other protected matter, if no exception or waiver applies; or

(iv) subjects a person to undue burden.

(B) When Permitted. To protect a person subject to or affected by a subpoena, the issuing court may, on motion, quash or modify the subpoena if it requires:

(i) disclosing a trade secret or other confidential research, development, or commercial information;

(ii) disclosing an unretained expert's opinion or information that does not describe specific occurrences in dispute and results from the expert's study that was not requested by a party; or

(iii) a person who is neither a party nor a party's officer to incur substantial expense to travel more than 100 miles to attend trial.

(C) Specifying Conditions as an Alternative. In the circumstances described in Rule 45(c)(3)(B), the court may, instead of quashing or modifying a subpoena, order appearance or production under specified conditions if the serving party:

(i) shows a substantial need for the testimony or material that cannot be otherwise met without undue hardship; and

(ii) ensures that the subpoenaed person will be reasonably compensated.

(d) Duties in Responding to Subpoena.
(1) Producing Documents or Electronically Stored Information.

These procedures apply to producing documents or electronically stored information:

(A) Documents. A person responding to a subpoena to produce documents must produce them as they are kept in the ordinary course of business or must organize and label them to correspond to the categories in the demand.

(B) Form for Producing Electronically Stored Information Not Specified. If a subpoena does not specify a form for producing electronically stored information, the person responding must produce it in a form or forms in which it is ordinarily maintained or in a reasonably usable form or forms.

(C) Electronically Stored Information Produced in Only One Form. The person responding need not produce the same electronically stored information in more than one form.

(D) Inaccessible Electronically Stored Information. The person responding need not provide discovery of electronically stored information from sources that the person identifies as not reasonably accessible because of undue burden or cost. On motion to compel discovery or for a protective order, the person responding must show that the information is not reasonably accessible because of undue burden or cost. If that showing is made, the court may nonetheless order discovery from such sources if the requesting party shows good cause, considering the limitations of Rule 26(b)(2)(C). The court may specify conditions for the discovery.

(2) Claiming Privilege or Protection.

(A) Information Withheld. A person withholding subpoenaed information under a claim that it is privileged or subject to protection as trial-preparation material must:

(i) expressly make the claim; and

(ii) describe the nature of the withheld documents, communications, or tangible things in a manner that, without revealing information itself privileged or protected, will enable the parties to assess the claim.

(B) Information Produced. If information produced in response to a subpoena is subject to a claim of privilege or of protection as trial-preparation material, the person making the claim may notify any party that received the information of the claim and the basis for it. After being notified, a party must promptly return, sequester, or destroy the specified information and any copies it has; must not use or disclose the information until the claim is resolved; must take reasonable steps to retrieve the information if the party disclosed it before being notified; and may promptly present the information to the court under seal for a determination of the claim. The person who produced the information must preserve the information until the claim is resolved.

(e) Contempt.
The issuing court may hold in contempt a person who, having been served, fails without adequate excuse to obey the subpoena. A nonparty's failure to obey must be excused if the subpoena purports to require the nonparty to attend or produce at a place outside the limits of Rule 45(c)(3)(A)(ii).

Has that happened to this site?

I pick Answer C!

No, only threats of a suit and that's been over 2 years ago. APC has never disclosed user info. The Forum Rules and Privacy Policy provide more details on how we use, and more importantly protect user info.

Thanks. I had been told that APC had been subpoenaed.

Hmmm
 

How about releasing NATIONAL SECRETS! See FedEx egrid post.

Goose17

Then it'd be a national security letter. In that case, APC couldn't even tell you whether they'd been asked for your info or not. The NSA would probably just hack the site and get what they need w/o a letter anyway... On the bright side: you look great in orange and Gitmo is nice this time of year.

I hear that every other week from the ACP :D

It is however possible that if you post something which is reasonably libelous someone might go to the trouble of suing. It's also remotely possible that an airline might sue even on marginal grounds strictly to justify a subpoena to identify someone (so they could discipline/fire him). A certain bottom-feeder regional is widely reputed to have done exactly the latter.

Say what you want to say, just be smart about the manner in which you say...if it's adverse info, don't state that it is fact unless you know and can prove it's fact. You should still be entitled to your personal opinion as long as it is clearly just your opinion.

Previous discussion here...

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ha...-internet.html

Just give me two weeks notice by email I will gladly close my account.

Too late...once somebody gets a subpoena, they can't go deleting records.

Well, yeah they can - but there may be consequences. :eek:


I'm not a lawyer, but I've heard that pursuing libel or slander actions is a pretty low percentage deal. Note, though, that during a recent strike there were some fairly heated discussions on this board (and, to be fair, others). Indeed, even some of the taglines were fairly harsh. Had there been violence during this strike (to my knowledge there wasn't) the fuzz might well have gotten interested in some of the posters. Be careful what you write. In this day and age it never really goes away.

Very true. But if someone is really PO-ed there incentives other than a payoff...

- If the plaintiff is your employer, they can fire you as soon as the subpoena reveals your name. There are essentially no protections against this, unless the speech in question had to do with labor organization.

- If the plaintiff has deep pockets, and the defendant doesn't, they can punish you just by being persistent and racking up legal fees. They don't even have to win...as long as their case is not deemed frivolous by the court each part pays their own legal fees.

Assumed name

Proxy Server

If your proxy is offshore that might work.

What if it's because those servers had porn on them :rolleyes:

If I cared, it would be.

and if you're tracked after that, you ****ed off the wrong agency.

Yup, but that wasn't my main point. If you've been posting "aggressively" regarding "scabs" (or non-scabs, for that matter) and somebody gets kneecapped, the feds just might come a-knocking. Even if you're totally innocent you're going to look like a fool, and the legal expenses will be daunting. Furthermore, your employer, as you noted, might just kick you to the curb for various reasons. Even if you get your job back eventually it'll cost. We're both saying the same thing - be careful what you post.