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Started Multi Training Last Night

Old 09-16-2006, 12:57 AM
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Does Vyse increase or decrease with altitude, for a given weight?
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Old 09-16-2006, 05:44 AM
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As altitude increases the best rate of climb decreases. That is the case for Vy and I would assume it would be no different for Vyse. I would assume it would be attributed to the fact that their is less lift and that the airplane is generating less power at altitude so you would have to lower the nose to maintain a climb.

The same would apply to for an increase of gross weight.

I do not believe that the actual airspeed of Vyse would change much but i do believe it would have to lower.

I wouldnt be the farm on it though since i just read the chapter the other day. Can you give me a good answer that would be appropriate for the DPE?
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Old 09-16-2006, 06:14 AM
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Make sure your instructor doesnt want you to do anything ridiculously dangerous like single engine stalls - those should never be done.

Of course the most important part of multiengine flying is to control the airplane with one engine, ESPECIALLY if it happens after takeoff. I am sure your instructor told you this, but when losing an engine, the most important thing is to FLY THE AIRPLANE. A lot of times my students would dive right into the procedures (mix prop throttles full fwd, flaps up gear up ,etc.) without flying the airplane first! Take a few seconds to take control of the situation and the airplane and then do the procedure - you will stay right on centerline.

haha I kinda miss being an MEI. Sounds like you really enjoy it. Have fun with it and good luck!!

Last edited by YoYoMa16; 09-16-2006 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:55 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by de727ups View Post
Does Vyse increase or decrease with altitude, for a given weight?

or.....is this a trick question where Vyse stays the same all the way up to the absolute ceiling, but you are only gaining 100fpm...I think i need to keep on the books. I have made flash cards for factors of VMC and the definition and all the Vspeeds and I am reading chapters on operations and systems and performance considerations out of the jepp multi engine pilot manual. Ill bring it up to my MEI tomorrow.

I feel pretty good about my first answer though.....can i phone a friend? (obscure who wants to be a millionaire reference)
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:04 PM
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"or.....is this a trick question"

HAHA. No, I just bought a PA23 Geronimo conversion and don't have any good numbers on it other than blue line is 95 mph. I want to see what it will do on one engine at 10K (probably driftdown) but was thinking blue line might only be accurate at sea level. I think the only way I'm going to get any accurate numbers on it is to go fly it.
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Old 09-16-2006, 06:33 PM
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haha..sorry UPS you can never be to sure with some of the questions that get thrown your way. I have seen your plane and it is beautiful, I see you work out of ONT but I am pretty sure you dont store it there.

I will try to find some numbers for that plane and send them your way. I have the POH, PIM for the Duchess but I will find something for you. Blue in the 76 is 85 so i dont think the two planes would have similiar numbers.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by usmc-sgt View Post
or.....is this a trick question where Vyse stays the same all the way up to the absolute ceiling, but you are only gaining 100fpm...

I believe that Vyse acts exactly the same as Vy as you increase altitude....decreases. There will be times when you fly that certain atmospheric conditions will the aircraft to perform better at speeds a little below Vyse, and when I say a little I mean only a few knots. Hopefully I'm right, and hoping that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I'm not sure if you were referring to gaining 100 fpm to absolute ceiling. Absolute ceiling is where you cannot gain anymore altitude at Vy because the slightest change in pitch, roll or power reduction will cause you to loose altitude.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by undflyboy06 View Post
I believe that Vyse acts exactly the same as Vy as you increase altitude....decreases. There will be times when you fly that certain atmospheric conditions will the aircraft to perform better at speeds a little below Vyse, and when I say a little I mean only a few knots. Hopefully I'm right, and hoping that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I'm not sure if you were referring to gaining 100 fpm to absolute ceiling. Absolute ceiling is where you cannot gain anymore altitude at Vy because the slightest change in pitch, roll or power reduction will cause you to loose altitude.


You are right. Vyse does act the same as Vy, and decreases with altitude. VMC, however also decreases with an increase in altitude. This is because all of the factors from the operating engine (torque, pfactor, slipstream, etc.) are decreased because propeller efficiency is diminished with a decrease in the concentration of air molecules as you fly higher.

Just think about it - air is more dense at lower altitudes, therefore the propeller takes bigger bites out of the air, being more effective. This in turn makes all of those factors greater in intensity.

Hope this helps a little - I miss teaching this stuff!!
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:25 PM
  #19  
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Re: Training Blog!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update: This flight 1.7 total ME 3.1

Flew today. I arrived to the school at 0800 to preflight the plane and get a little studying done. We did a little groundwork and the MEI made sure that I knew all of the Vspeeds of the plane and that I was familiar with the systems and the performance which I was pretty good on, i studied pretty hard this week on my off time and made some flashcards which really help.

Took off at around 0915 or so and did a short field takeoff, my take on it is that it was pretty easy, no flaps just brakes, full power and go. Rotation was at Vx (71 kts) and the 50' mark came so fast that you almost do not have a ton of time to keep it at 71, by the time the gear was up I was over the obstacle and pitching for Vy (85 kts) We headed out to the practice area and did slow flight, steep turns, and power off and on stalls. Everything went well the only thing I need to work on is memorizing the setup for the stalls because there is a little more involved in the multi coming from the single but nothing that cant be handled with some studying and some more practice. My steep turns were not great but all within PTS, I will need some work on them as well, that little extra speed lets the plane fluctuate a bit more than the single but I felt good on those. Slow flight was no problem, got set up and held it just fine and manuevered well. The stall recoveries are nice because we were really only doing them to the buffet which made it a non event and it was quite subtle. After that we left the practice area for some short field landings. My short field landings are not short so obviously it is back to the drawing board for that. I am overly cautious to pull back on the power because for those that dont know, a twin will drop pretty quick in landing configuration at Vref when you chop the power. I need to work on flying it right down to my point while easing power back and then fully dropping the power simultaneously as i raise the nose. I dont think it is a huge issue because my landings are not poor, just not great. I am not worried though because it has only been 3.1 and like 6 landings total so it will come. One problem I have on landings is that as i am pulling back my last bit of power, even though I am pulling power evenly, there is some uneven thrust between the engines and it is causing the airplane to slightly yaw nose left just before touchdown which would sideload the gears. I am able to apply right rudder in time to get it back straight but I am not sure why it is doing it in the first place. Is this a common occurrence? The airplane is 10 hours shy of the 100 hour and one of the power cables seems a bit more stiff than the other and the mechanic said they would look at it. Anyway that is probably my biggest annoyance because I dont know if it is something I have to constantly compensate for on the flare with rudder or if it is just something I am doing wrong. I can fix the shortfield no problem because I know what needs to be done, but this...I am sure it is just innexperience and will work itself out. That was pretty much the flight, 3 landings and 1.7 in the air and a little ground.

I am flying again on Tues, Wed, and twice on Saturday and the stage check is Wed so it is coming pretty fast. I will try to keep these shorter because they are a little long winded

UND- you are absolutely right. I was wrong on the absolute ceiling, what I think I was talking about was service celing...correct?

Help me settle a dispute...I read in the manual that Vlo is 112 knots which says that is the maximum speed that the landing gear can be operated (extended or retracted) and Vle is 140 knots and is the maxiumum speed that the airplane can be operated with the landing gear down. My instructor says that the landing gear can be extended or retracted up to 140 knots but i dont recall reading it that way. I didnt argue with him though because he is the MEI and I am the student. any insight?
-shawn
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Old 09-17-2006, 06:01 PM
  #20  
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"My instructor says that the landing gear can be extended or retracted up to 140 knots but i dont recall reading it that way"

Your instructor is incorrect.
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