USMCFDX

We get it doc you hate the Cirrus. Again show us your data that it has a significantly higher fatality rate. I already showed you and provided you a link that your statement is false.

If you keep making the same statement over and over it does not make it any more true.

Sputnik

[QUOTE=cardiomd;188857

Not exactly a pilot's plane. It is viewed as a form of luxury transport for the well-heeled, as was the Bonanza in the 1960's. Fatal accident rate significantly higher than average. I'm not saying it can't be safely flown in the right fashion, but it should be flown in such a fashion - minimizing maneuvering and risk, and I wouldn't want to fly one slowly.[/QUOTE]


Not sure what you are talking about, have you flown one? For first couple years it didnt a have a great safety record--but it wasnt bad either. About average for GA as I recall. Couple years ago company double downed on safety training and it apparently paid off. You seem to be ignoring the stats already posted. Love the plane or hate it, but you cant say its unsafe.

We flew zero time students in the 20, through solo. They did just fine.

I wouldnt want to spin one, so I didnt. Thats how I minimized risk.

ShyGuy

It's a little too much airplane for relatively newbies.


What happened to this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAWy9mjnrYM

Yikes!

ShyGuy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0lWsqAwYwY

Poor family. He shoulda just deployed the chute while they were straight/level.

Justdoinmyjob

el jefe

The PSA pilot leaving the CLT E gates around 4:30pm yesterday.

I didn't catch how it started but I just assume the ramp was congested, and ramp control pushed a plane that blocked PSA from getting out. I think ramp said "sorry", but PSA took it a big step further by telling ramp they didn't know how to do their job, twice! It went something like this, unfortunately LiveATC doesn't record ramp frequencies because that would be audio gold.

PSA-"(bla bla bla) You blocked us with that plane"
Ramp-"Sorry about that (excuse)"
PSA-"...You just dont know how to do your job"
Ramp-"Say again?"
PSA- "Youre not doing your job right"
Ramp-"Well I can give you the ramp managers phone number and you can talk it out with them"
PSA-"Sorry we gotta go (said something snarky)"

Are you that ******* dumb that they aren't going to track you down and make you explain yourself? You're not anonymous calling on guard or on the internet, they know your exact flight number!

I know CLT has some real juvenile radio operators, but this took the cake.

cardiomd

I don't hate Cirrus at all. I want them to succeed, and love their price point where again a non-super-rich type person can almost afford a nice plane. I nearly bought one, but hate the spring-loaded sidestick feel, which I feel is responsible for many, many crashes like the Melborne one ShyGuy lists below.

Since you seem too nonmotivated to read non-Cirrus propaganda statistics, here is a sample analysis:

Steve Wilson Blog - Dead Pilots Don?t Lie

There are some issues "the other way" with this analysis, but I'm more concerned with the type of accidents which you can read on the NTSB, which happen with alarming frequency.

Here is a take that it is actually often high time pilots:

AOPA Pilot Blog: Reporting Points » Blog Archive » Surprising Cirrus Stats

I like to "know" how much performance I can get out of my plane. If I have to do a steep bank into an accelerated stall, I can feel by the flight controls and the buffeting exactly how my plane will react, it talks to me before I will ever spin. The Cirrus really doesn't. I didn't really like flying the plane other than "Point A to Point B on auto most of the way" which is fine, but not the plane for me, nor for any of the numerous people who crashed.

I could fly it completely fine treating it like an airliner (like the person above said "never spin.") But for example I like to make short approach often just for fun, which I would never even consider doing in a Cirrus.

Dick Collins has a great little essay:

What's wrong with Cirrus pilots? - Air Facts Journal

And Phillip Greenspun also nails it:

Cirrus Accident Investigation

Yes, unfortunately all to common Cirrus accident. You can blame the pilot (and yes, he was at fault) but the control setup and characteristics of the airfoil make it easier to do this kind of thing. As I said above if I had a Cirrus I wouldn't even make short approach - no G's in the pattern as the wing will suddenly stall and you will have little warning to the airflow separation. It is NOT a plane for maneuvering.

Some nonprofessionals can fly twins with acceptable safety, but I am perfectly fine knowing that a twin is not a good plane for me despite flying extremely often.

Some people that buy it are getting an emotional response to any criticism which I guess is understandable if they put a large amount of time / $$$ into the plane.

Timbo

No matter what airplane you buy, step one should be to take it out with an experienced (in type) Instructor and learn how to fly it.

I'm not talking about just doing pattern work, I'm talking about extensive air work; slow flight, steep turns, stall recoveries, upset recoveries, etc. all done at a safe altitude of course.

And if the weather is 'marginal' and you have no instrument time, or very little, or have your ticket but haven't flown any actual IFR in a while, bring an IP with you there too!

Just ask Jon Jon Kennedy what can happen if you don't.

USMCFDX

I don't know I'm not an NTSB investigator. The Doc appears to be ask him.

MikeF16

The JFK ground controller last night. He decided to teach all us dumb pilots a lesson about stepping on radio calls and just stopped replying to anybody, thereby making the traffic jam worse than before as more and more aircraft got on freq to ask for taxi clearance. 2nd trip in a row I've had to listen to this guy's power trip while trying to get from the gate to the runway.