Comp Mon

Why does Hawaiian Airlines pay less than a first year Regional airline First Officer? Do they really believe in Ohana? Or is it all just hypocrisy?

SD3FR8DOG

That’s actually quite deep and quite accurate given you don’t work there. There’s more sense of Ohana in the collection of ice cubes in the bottom of your mai tai glass than you’ll find here.

First year pay, reserve rules, vacation and sick time accrual all suck for new joiners.

jawzz

The "sense of 'Ohana" is highly dependent on the people you interact with during any given day at Hawaiian. Sometimes it's truly there, sometimes definitely not. Agreed our work rules are the absolute worst out of the majors. Some of the ULCC's and regional's have far better work rules than us.

EndlessSummer

Everyone knows about the first year pay, but what are the issues with the work rules? What's so bad about the reserve rules there?

matl

Yes, what's the issue w/ the work rules? I thought things improved after the contract negotiations in 2017?

matl

Have things not improved since contract negotiations were finalized in 2017?

kingairfun

Would need specific work rule example to properly compare them... But I don't recall a whole lot changing with our reserve rules after contract (except maybe the daily value?)

Our reserve rules are a bit restrictive:

---We cannot pick up extra work on an off day to increase our pay

--- 18 days of reserve, other airlines have less

---We don't have a bidding system to determine your day of reserve start time ( can however call scheduling day before and ask for a certain availability period.. seems to work fairly well, but that all depends on the scheduler etc)

--- We don't have an automatic way of trading reserve days with another pilot. (again can call scheduling and put in a trade request. If there are no conflicts it typically isn't a problem)

Some PRO's of our reserve system, not necessarily work rules:

---Basically the only way you'll make more than guarantee is if they call and you accept an OFF day assignment.. It pays above guarantee... I've had it where I didn't get called all month and they called for a 2 day trip on my day OFF. Those months make reserve feel worth it. But for the most part expect to be stuck at guarantee (75hrs) on reserve.

---can do all reserve in one long block or blocks as short as 2 days...( ie: commuters may do all in one long block or however they want to enhance their commuting life)

---On the long haul (ie 321/330) if they haven't called by a certain time of the day (noonish typically) you will be illegal to do an outbound trip due to surpassing duty day limits.

---We're a small airline: you can easily look up the days flying and determine if everything has left Hawaii basically telling you you're done for the day.

---321/330... if they call you for a trip, that's all you get.. you return to HNL day 2 or 3, they're not gonna use you for another flight that day.. You're not gonna get re-routed, or have to pack a bag for a week... You can tell your wife " Hey I got called, I'll be home tomorrow at 11am." You'll never get to HNL and have a message to call scheduling for another assignment. ( we do call to get "released" but that seems to be just semantics. I never called and it was never a problem. (717 is a bit different)

---Honestly, except for the 717, reserve is pretty easy. 717 is a different animal because you can get called anytime for an out and back to LIH. The other fleets you may go weeks without a call. (that has been my experience, others may have been abused more on reserve)

We definitely have reserve rules that lack many other airlines. But IMO, the type of flying we do evens out some of the stuff mainland pilots have to worry about. Take my opinions with a grain of salt though. I started this career before 9-11, had many career detours, my perspective and outlook may be different than others. My glass is half full at Hawaiian.

My biggest gripe is not being able to pick up trips on days off.

AllYourBaseAreB

Sounds a lot like AA reserve work rules. Only difference is you can bid your RAP, but scheduling can keep shifting by 4 hr a day

flight81

Any forecasts on how the 787 will stack up seniority wise?

Makai

The 787 will likely go very senior. It will have the highest pay scale and not much flying in the beginning. This means, hardly working and getting paid min guarantee.