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Old 01-29-2023, 12:35 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Gobows View Post
Are you saying stop loss insurance is a good thing for the employee? Maybe I’m misunderstanding it but isn’t a mechanism that caps the amount of benefit an employee receives a bad thing? Especially when current book is unlimited?
My point was that I don’t know of any other airline that was such a provision. It’s only for things not covered by insurance, and while the TA change will put an upper limit cap on the amount the company would have to pay, no pilot in the history of the program has come close to the new cap.
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Old 01-29-2023, 02:13 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Gobows View Post
Are you saying stop loss insurance is a good thing for the employee? Maybe I’m misunderstanding it but isn’t a mechanism that caps the amount of benefit an employee receives a bad thing? Especially when current book is unlimited?
No limit liability could Cost the group numerous times the benefit we are actually receiving. Negotiating capital and benefits we are not even reaping the full benefits of. Wasn’t that the case brought forward. It’s like being over insured as there is such a thing. You can pay for quadruple health insurance coverage and two car insurances if you want. Let that be on your dime, not mine.
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Old 01-29-2023, 03:01 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by PineappleXpres View Post
No limit liability could Cost the group numerous times the benefit we are actually receiving. Negotiating capital and benefits we are not even reaping the full benefits of. Wasn’t that the case brought forward. It’s like being over insured as there is such a thing. You can pay for quadruple health insurance coverage and two car insurances if you want. Let that be on your dime, not mine.
Correct, plus depending on your circumstances it could save you money under the TA. Rather than spending $3000 out of pocket to qualify, you spend $1500 out of pocket once HRA $ is gone to then qualify. Under the TA, every pilot gets $2500 HRA, and how many pilots are currently using stop loss (or ever even heard of it)?
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Old 01-30-2023, 10:31 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Gobows View Post
Are you saying stop loss insurance is a good thing for the employee? Maybe I’m misunderstanding it but isn’t a mechanism that caps the amount of benefit an employee receives a bad thing? Especially when current book is unlimited?
Your understanding is completely backwards. Stop loss is the kind of benefit you only really appreciate if you have to use it. Beyond the “deductible” (originally $1500 per condition for life, then $3000, now $4000 towards max $80000 per year so a gradual reduction in benefits each successive contract) the company will cover ANY costs associated with whatever condition is treated, including things that insurance does not cover (experimental treatments etc). It would not be an exaggeration to say this benefit has kept some pilots out of personal bankruptcy when something really out of left field has affected them or their family. If this is ever negotiated away it should be an automatic no vote.
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Old 01-30-2023, 11:01 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by WindWalker999 View Post
Your understanding is completely backwards. Stop loss is the kind of benefit you only really appreciate if you have to use it. Beyond the “deductible” (originally $1500 per condition for life, then $3000, now $4000 towards max $80000 per year so a gradual reduction in benefits each successive contract) the company will cover ANY costs associated with whatever condition is treated, including things that insurance does not cover (experimental treatments etc). It would not be an exaggeration to say this benefit has kept some pilots out of personal bankruptcy when something really out of left field has affected them or their family. If this is ever negotiated away it should be an automatic no vote.
Thankfully stop loss did not go away, it was just modified. How many pilots benefit under the current stop loss benefit, versus EVERY pilot gets $2500 in an HRA? You are aware that any medical expense not covered by insurance, that would then qualify for stop loss, is still eligible for a tax deduction by the IRS right? The company has 90 days to pay the claim, while you have to wait until filing taxes to get the money back from the IRS. Please don’t do both as that would be tax fraud!

Again, stop loss is only a benefit for things not covered by normal insurance. However, even without stop loss you can write off any eligible expense (under IRS 502) on your taxes. It’s a great provision to have in the PWA, but this is not a hill to die on for me.
Last edited by Akamai; 01-30-2023 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 01-30-2023, 11:17 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by WindWalker999 View Post
Your understanding is completely backwards. Stop loss is the kind of benefit you only really appreciate if you have to use it. Beyond the “deductible” (originally $1500 per condition for life, then $3000, now $4000 towards max $80000 per year so a gradual reduction in benefits each successive contract) the company will cover ANY costs associated with whatever condition is treated, including things that insurance does not cover (experimental treatments etc). It would not be an exaggeration to say this benefit has kept some pilots out of personal bankruptcy when something really out of left field has affected them or their family. If this is ever negotiated away it should be an automatic no vote.
The 80,000 dollar annual (per incident) cap is after insurance pays. I understand experimental drugs and medical procedures are sometimes not covered. What was the previous criteria for getting authorization for the company? A vast majority of those who have medical debt in this country have less than 10k in accumulated medical debt over time. Just trying to understand the case you mention. What are the costs associated with no limit insurance too? I don’t doubt you have a case in mind, but it’s still nebulous as to the scenario. That said inflation is a very real thing with a dollar cap. That I’ll submit would need to go up every time.

We all vote with our collective experiences. George help us all.
Last edited by PineappleXpres; 01-30-2023 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 01-31-2023, 11:29 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by PineappleXpres View Post

We all vote with our collective experiences. George help us all.
Agreed, that is indeed the main point of the democratic process!
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Old 02-01-2023, 11:31 AM
  #158  
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Can someone provide the bullet points? And when does your voting close?
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Old 02-01-2023, 11:43 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by FXLAX View Post
Can someone provide the bullet points? And when does your voting close?

Basically in a nutshell. Anything HAL had that was better than industry standard is gone and yet pay, min daily guarantee and vacation credit lag Delta TA. It also incorporates a B scale for freighter ops. 🤮

Hard no from me. Sadly many will vote yes, blinded by the pay rates on page 1.
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SD3FR8DOG View Post
Basically in a nutshell. Anything HAL had that was better than industry standard is gone and yet pay, min daily guarantee and vacation credit lag Delta TA. It also incorporates a B scale for freighter ops. 🤮

Hard no from me. Sadly many will vote yes, blinded by the pay rates on page 1.
If that’s what you got from reading the contract and the road shows then I would suggest contacting your rep for a better understanding of the TA and what’s in it.
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