p3pilot

Are you saying that the army flies carrier aircraft? And the WO program is for non-carrier aviators, because you really can not call helos carrier aircraft.

Take a look at the pay. http://www.dod.mil/dfas/money/milpay...%20updated.pdf
A E5 through E7 will be make more money as a CWO1. How is this going to save the Navy money.If they took qualified pilots and asked them if they wanted to be a CWO then that WOULD save the Navy money, and they would propably have more then enough to fill whatever gap they think there is. Plus saving the cost of the training for 30 odd CWO and the 10% failure rate that they will have.

Once again the NAvy bean counters are not going out into the squadrons and find out the really problem is but staying in their hole and make more. THIS PROJECT IS GOING TO FAIL!!!!!!!!! I wish they would get a clue.

T6Driver

I'm a P-3 guy on my first shore tour (flying, thank goodness). Here's the typical VP pilot's career progression. You tell me how well we do with the taxpayers' money. Commissioning to wings: 2 years, approx. $1,000,000. FRS (RAG) to initial fleet squadron: 6 to 8 months. You leave the FRS as a qualified 3rd pilot, but your fleet squadron typically starts you off completely unqualified. You spend the next 18-24 months becoming a PIC. If you are lucky, you get about a year and a half as a qualified plane commander. Then, you get to transfer to "shore duty" for 3 years followed by a "disassociated sea tour" for 2 years. If you make the cut on the O-4 selection board AND on the department head selection board, you get to go back to the community as a department head.

If a guy doesn't get flying orders for his shore duty, he will have been out of the cockpit for about five years. You tell me: does this make sense?

Note: The above rant doesn't mention the fact that a P-3 pilot is limited to 15 hours of flight time per month. Once you have 100 hours PIC, you are further limited to 10 hours per month. This is due to fatigue life issues with the airframe.

As far as the new warrant program, they have to fill pilot slots, because they have told us that EVERY pilot can expect to be sent to Iraq (or some other hot spot) for at least a year. These individual augmentation (IA) billets are, IMO, a response to the Army's inability to fill its vacancies. Most guys I know are getting out when their time is up (can you blame them?).

CHIPSLGT3

Preach on it T6.

How about the impacts Warrants will have on the wardroom? They’ll be parlaying in the cockpit for 20 years while O-3’s fight to gain fitrep bullets in order to maybe go back as a DH someday.

Frightened LT: “Warrant, you weren’t at the skipper’s party Friday. He had to have noticed. You better develop a new spreadsheet for tracking day landings to make up for it”.

****** hot Warrant: “Who cares, I’m getting flying orders out of this tour anyway. Hey, aren’t you heading to Iraq next month? You mind if I take over as PPC on your crew.”

A b**chin pilot is a happy pilot, and I’m happy I caught the very end of the good deal VP Navy. Got buddies 2 years behind me that sign emails, “Fatigue life ruined me”.

Tell the young bucks who express dreams of Navy flying to look hard at the USCG. Can you say, “herks out of Hawaii”?

navyCWOhopeful

greetings! Yes, a brand new registered user. It's amazing what google can find, huh? Anyway, thought I'd start posting here b/c I am applying to this program, and it's been a very interesting discussion for me so far...

Quitter

T-6 and Chips: You guys are spot on.

I'm on my first shore tour (FRS) and will be shopping for a new career very soon... They claim they are starting this program to ensure that 'qualified and dedicated aviators' can stay in the cockpit?

Then why the heck did I just get back from 6 months wearing cammies overseas filling an army job? So that I can look forward to a disassociated sea tour as a shooter? While some WO takes even MORE flight time away from me?

B.S.

Hobbs

I have a question about pilot medicals for Marine avaition. When I played football in high school I dislocated both of my shoulders. At the time I was thinking about the military to get my flight training. The ortho who happened to be an ex flight surgeon said that this would make it much more difficult if not impossible to fly in the military. I don't have any problems with them what so ever now and am in fantastic shape. I've been thinking about signing up when I'm done with college but was wondering if I even have a chance. I know you guys are naval pilots but I'm fairly sure its the same sort of process. Additionaly I've heard that you can be garaunteed a pilot slot in the Marines, and if you don't get it you can leave. Is this true? I'm already doing flight training now, and hope to fly for an major airline some day. What are my chances of getting put in a death trap (helicopter) instead of fixed wing ?

CHIPSLGT3

Hobbs

Three things:

1) Two types of aircraft consistently listed on the Class A mishap summary that’s posted above a squadron urinal, Jets and Helo’s.

2) Most Marine pilots fly Helo’s. Don’t know the ratio, but in the Navy it’s more than half. So the average student stands a pretty good chance of being in a 3 foot hover down at South Whiting Field for advanced training. With your prior flight time, you stand a better chance of going fixed wing. That is if you study you’re a** off, keep your mouth shut, and do as you’re told. Lots of my Marine buddies in flight school expressed remorse for not going USAF. Chances of flying a jet (if that’s what you want) are a lot better. If you want to fly multi-engine and be part of a cool mission, go USCG (most of my Navy buddies now wish they did, especially after Katrina). Coastie students want helo’s. Your chances of getting Herks or Falcons are pretty good.

3) The military ain’t about logging time for the majors. Now mind you I started off thinking that, but after 9/11 my perception changed drastically. The war on terror is a campaign that our generation (X’ers and MTVers)are a part of. Your dream of logging time will fade at The Basic School (TBS) or on a Forward Air Controller tour while boots on the ground in Iraq (both you WILL do in the Corps). I flew with lots of guys who did everything right career wise to position themselves for the majors, and due to fate and timing, ended up at a regional. Fly for the military because it’s the best personal and professional endeavour most folks could ever be a part of.

CHIPSLGT3

WOhopeful,

No shame. You didn't draft or approve this policy, big Navy did. If I was in your position, I’d go for it. A cockpit view beats one from the tube (or MX shop). If your dream is to be a Naval Aviator, all the best.

Be advised, you will be the guy who is taking an outsourced flight billet at a cheaper pay rate. There absolutely will be a cultural divide in the squadron. Flight time is a sensitive subject in military aviation (been in over 7 years, only have logged 1700 hours military time). If I was an O-2 or 3 stuck in an office planning the wardroom X-mas party (or more importantly, filling an augment billet in Iraq) while some Warrant was out flying a mission I should have been on, there’d be friction.

As you probably know, there is a divide between enlisted aircrew and maintainers. That's a cultural issue that won't change. You better believe it will be the same between Warrants and the rest of the wardroom.

AmericanIdiot#1

Hobbs...

Some of those death traps get the coolest missions over in the desert. If you go into Marine aviation, be happy you get to fly whatever you are assigned. Also, as a Marine pilot, you are an officer first...a ground officer. Even with all the money invested into making you a Marine aviator, your ground duties and taking care of your enlisted Marines will come first. If all you want to do is fly, go into the Air Force, Guard, or Reserves.

AI

Hobbs

First of all, you have excellent taste in movies. Platoon= Awesome

I don't mean to say that helicopters aren't good, just the idea of an autorotation from 4,000ft scares the living **** out of me. Plus I've heard that a lot of the helicopters in the armed forces are really old. Helicopters are a lot more complex and when somthing breaks you can't just glide down, you fall. Thats a problem for me. I think it would be a great thing to do, but I don't have any desire to fly helicopters.