Notices
Hiring News Latest news and rumors

Cathay Pacific SO

Old 02-04-2006, 08:55 PM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Default

Great post Bambi and welcome to APC.

Just one minor correction, I don't know any U.S. major that has a first year salary of $60,000. UPS was a pathetic $27,000 last time I looked, hopefully it has gone up. USAirways was $36,000. Fedex and SWA were probably the two best with salary close to $50,000. This just makes your argument stronger.

I've said on other threads here that one has to look at the bottom line, not the top line when deciding on jobs overseas. Tax obvioulsy being a big item that effects the difference, but housing allowance is another biggy as well.


Typhoonpilot
Typhoonpilot is offline  
Old 02-05-2006, 04:15 PM
  #12  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: At a computer, not an airplane
Posts: 12
Default

Also to add to bambi's post,

You start at year 1 every time you are promoted. It is not like North America, where you assume the pay grade associated with your year of service. At Cathay, if you are a 12 year FO who has passed Command selection and training, you start at Year 1 Captains pay. This applies to all promotions, including JFO-FO-SFO.

As well, your housing pay will get used. Hong Kong is REALLY expensive to live in. It blows New York/Manhattan out of the water in terms of living expenses.

Last edited by looking_around; 02-05-2006 at 04:17 PM.
looking_around is offline  
Old 02-05-2006, 07:17 PM
  #13  
ubermich
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hong Kong does have much lower taxes, however, the united states is one of the few nations that actually taxes its citizens. So even if you don't live or work in the US, if you are a US citizen, then you pay US taxes. You can deduct your Hong Kong taxes from this, so it's not like you are paying double, but you don't just pay US taxes. However, there is something you can set up, I'm not too familiar with, but you can avoid paying US income tax as long as you don't even step foot inb the US for at least two years, but then after that if you come back, even for a day, you have to start paying taxes again.
 
Old 02-05-2006, 08:59 PM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Default

Originally Posted by ubermich
Hong Kong does have much lower taxes, however, the united states is one of the few nations that actually taxes its citizens. So even if you don't live or work in the US, if you are a US citizen, then you pay US taxes. You can deduct your Hong Kong taxes from this, so it's not like you are paying double, but you don't just pay US taxes. However, there is something you can set up, I'm not too familiar with, but you can avoid paying US income tax as long as you don't even step foot inb the US for at least two years, but then after that if you come back, even for a day, you have to start paying taxes again.
The above is not correct, in fact, the last sentence is pure fiction. A U.S. citizen or green card holder is required to report their global income and is still required to pay tax. However, a U.S. citizen or green card holder can have an $80,000 foreign earned income exclusion if they meet one of two tests. The first, and best, method is to be a resident of a foreign country for a full calendar year. The second method is to be IN a foreign country for 330 days out of 365. This deduction is on top of any other deductions you may have so that a person residing in a foreign country needs to make over $100,000 per year to reach a point where they have to pay any tax to Uncle Sam. In the case of a Cathay captain making $200,000 per year he would also be able to offset his U.S. taxes with the taxes he paid in Hong Kong.


Typhoonpilot
Typhoonpilot is offline  
Old 02-06-2006, 01:55 PM
  #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Brown Cow's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: MD11
Posts: 137
Default

So exactly were is the benefit to living in Hong Kong. You use up your entire housing allowance, you have to pay US tax after a certain earnings level, and things cost an awful lot compared to the US. The only way it is worthwhile to leave US soil for an ex-pat job is to go as a DEC.........I'm sure that Typhoonpilot won't even refute this.

BC

Last edited by Brown Cow; 02-06-2006 at 07:01 PM.
Brown Cow is offline  
Old 02-06-2006, 04:55 PM
  #16  
ubermich
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What was so wrong with what I said? I failed to mention the up to 80K thing, but the 330 out of a year thing is only for the foreign earned income exclusion, and there is a certain tax shelter that can be set up that can protect your entire income if you don't come back to the States for at least two years. As I mentioned, I don't know the details, but I worked for a tax lawyer who set this up for his clients a couple times.
 
Old 02-06-2006, 07:29 PM
  #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Default

Originally Posted by ubermich
What was so wrong with what I said? I failed to mention the up to 80K thing, but the 330 out of a year thing is only for the foreign earned income exclusion, and there is a certain tax shelter that can be set up that can protect your entire income if you don't come back to the States for at least two years. As I mentioned, I don't know the details, but I worked for a tax lawyer who set this up for his clients a couple times.
There are lots of "Tax Shelters", most of them are illegal. You can't get around reporting your income to the IRS legally. Talk to the Saudia pilots that tried, they will tell you how NOT worth it such things are.

I make over $100,000 per year and my effective tax rate is around 5%. It's not much to sleep peacefully at night and not have to worry about the IRS auditing me.

TP
Typhoonpilot is offline  
Old 02-19-2006, 05:02 AM
  #18  
bambi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by Brown Cow
So exactly were is the benefit to living in Hong Kong. You use up your entire housing allowance, you have to pay US tax after a certain earnings level, and things cost an awful lot compared to the US. The only way it is worthwhile to leave US soil for an ex-pat job is to go as a DEC.........I'm sure that Typhoonpilot won't even refute this.

BC
Housing allowance is meant to be spend on housing, so I do not see a problem about using your entire housing allowance for that purpose.

As for things cost an awful lot compared to the US? Have you ever lived in Hong Kong? I personally have lived in both Hong Kong and the US (Los Angeles) and it is my own experience that majority of things are cheaper in Hong Kong (food, cloths, electronics, going out to resturant, entertainment [ie: movie ticket is between HKD45 to 60 which is equalivant to USD6 to 8, the last I remember in LA, it cost about USD11 to watch a movie at the Arclight Cinema in LAX]). Although I do agree that housing and transportation is more expensive, in Hong Kong if you take a Metro (MTR), you paid according to the distance travel, none of those one fare for your whole journey kind of deals that you get in North America. But this simply means that your short trip within the city is not subsidizing others who is travelling a longer distance. Also, if you find an apporiate place to live that suits your life styles, then your transportation cost will be very small. So I do not see how things costs aweful lot in Hong Kong.

As for leaving US for a job in Cathay, for someone who is established and have been working for a US carrier for sometime, it is definitely not worth it to move to Hong Kong. Also, Cathay doesn't take direct entry captain, Captain in Cathay is only promoted from FO within the company. But for someone who just started their career in a regional carrier, then it is more then worth it to consider Cathay and Hong Kong as a jumping board. The last I heard from a buddy of mine who is working as a Captain in Chautauqua Airlines (one of those regionals that fly for US Airways, American, etc) got paid about USD72,000 a year. So moving to Hong Kong as an direct entry first officer is more then worth it in terms of salary. As for moving to Hong Kong as an direct entry SO, maybe it is more suitable for someone who is working as an FO in a US regional airlines. That way you won't get a decrease in salary. Ultimately, the decision is yours.
 
Old 02-20-2006, 09:18 AM
  #19  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: At a computer, not an airplane
Posts: 12
Default

yes bambi, I have been to Honkers, many many times, both to visit (often) as my wife is from there (born/raised 30 years), and for work. (layovers)

The cost of living in HK is very high, no matter how you paint it. Anybody can confirm this by research. Check out cost of living charts. Yes, you are right about SOME things being cheaper, but overall people will spend more money in HK then you would if you are a Yank from the US, to live a western lifestyle.

For example, maybe you should post what your rent was over in Dis. Cov. bay since if you are an expat with decent seniority, that is probably where you lived. I know my wifes' family apartment (really old/sort of run down) in Kowloon which is approximately 3,500 square feet (4 bedrooms and 1 bathroom) , is worth 25,000,000 HK dollars ($3,225,000 USD).

All this aside, Cathay IS a good employer, and is much better than most places to be in the USA. except FedEx. I chose to stay in my country flying for my countries Flag Carrier. I fly wide-body equipment, the exact same equipment Cathay flies. My flight salary is higher than many Cathay B scale pilots on the same equipment. However my taxes are WAY higher of coarse.

I think pilots on this forum should be correctly informed of facts. The facts are, Cathay=good company, and overall good job......HK=very high cost of living. (research to confirm, and talk to people who are NATIVE to the region. Now if you want to live like a local, then the cost comes down obviously.)

Best of luck.

Last edited by looking_around; 02-20-2006 at 09:26 AM.
looking_around is offline  
Old 02-23-2006, 05:17 AM
  #20  
bambi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am living in a townhouse at Sai Kung near Clearwater Bay. I pay about HKD45,000 per month for rent which is paid for by CX so I don't have to worry about it. It is an area with a good mix of expat and some locals. Many good western resturants, asian food like indian and thai and many local seafood resturant in the area also. Very popular on the weekends where expat from other area will come here for a drink and it is much easier to get into the city compare to Discovery Bay. DB is a very over price and over rated area to live in, if you live in DB you are pretty much living within your own little world of expats that is away from the city where everything is over priced because they know you can afford it. If you live in DB, you won't feels like you are living in Hong Kong, I personally knew a few friends who live in DB when they first moved to Hong Kong and decided to move elsewhere because they are sick of the people who lives there. Anyway, the only disadvantage for me in living in Sai Kung is that I am a little bit farther away from the airport but you can just take a taxi to work, it won't cost you too much since you only work 4 times a month anyway. You can get all the Western food in Sai Kung at a much more reasonable price. This is the good thing about Hong Kong is that when you first move there, you will get rip off because you don't know where to go shopping. You will be shopping at Pacific Place or IFC mall where everything sold is design for expat or the very rich local businessman and their wives. But once you start exploring the city, you will discover that many of the daily essential items can be brought at a very cheap and reasonable price. So I guess at first when you first move to Hong Kong things could get quite expensive. Just ask any co-workers, I am sure most of them are more then happy to show you where to get the best deals on different things. Coming from my experience after living in Hong Kong for a while now, things is cheaper here then the US and many other places in the world for that matter.
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gnwac
Cargo
6
01-27-2006 09:48 AM
loudgarrettdriver
Hiring News
3
12-12-2005 06:12 PM
tsuchiym
Major
3
11-15-2005 09:04 PM
tsuchiym
JetBlue
1
11-13-2005 09:14 PM
Tomcat
Hiring News
1
10-13-2005 11:29 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices