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Old 11-27-2009, 01:16 AM
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Wish I had a few more hours...

https://www3.ultirecruit.com/air1002...2072480D0CD5D3
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757

I read the post and got to thinking about something.. they want 1500 hours? When the airlines begin to hire a little bit more, do you think we could see a similar requirement for others, in anticipation of the Part-121 ATP rule? Everyone might start to make that the minimum so you are at least ATP-qualified prior to hire.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MiGBoy
I read the post and got to thinking about something.. they want 1500 hours? When the airlines begin to hire a little bit more, do you think we could see a similar requirement for others, in anticipation of the Part-121 ATP rule? Everyone might start to make that the minimum so you are at least ATP-qualified prior to hire.
What stinks isn't the 1500, that will not be incredibly hard for the up and coming young pilots, it will be the 500 XC.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:42 PM
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thats whats going to kill me, esp flying jumpers, the 1500 will come over the next year/two, but the xc i wont get flying jumpers, hopefully next year i can be more successful getting a winter job doing surveying, i tried hard this year, even called the places up a few times and made friends with the guy on the phone, still no dice

Originally Posted by mikeypat15
What stinks isn't the 1500, that will not be incredibly hard for the up and coming young pilots, it will be the 500 XC.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:41 PM
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Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see the 500 XC...

All I saw was 1500TT/ 500 Multi
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:18 PM
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The cross country is easy to get as a CFI since in the course of teaching you will fly quite a few XCs with students and will end up in your day to day flying 50 miles away on a few occasions as well.

As for banner towing and jumpers....back to the drawing board. Not sure what you guys can do.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:46 PM
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How is X-country defined? It's been 15 years, but isn't "x/c = landing 50 miles from departure point" only defined as such for private pilot purposes? I thought it took on a different definition for comm, ATP, and/or hiring purposes.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by usmc-sgt
The cross country is easy to get as a CFI since in the course of teaching you will fly quite a few XCs with students and will end up in your day to day flying 50 miles away on a few occasions as well.

As for banner towing and jumpers....back to the drawing board. Not sure what you guys can do.

Not as easy as one would think. As it is my hang-up with getting my ATP. X/C for purposes of a rating is straight-line distance >50nm from point of departure.

The real issue is what types of students you have. 90% of my students are PVT which end up with about 5hrs dual x-c >50nm. Figure that's about 10% of your dual time with said student, making that 500X-C number a bit harder. Also figure in students that drop-out, never quite get to x-c work, demo flights, etc which builds that TT faster than the x/c time.

If you have a few COM and INS students they require a little bit more dual X-C flights, but not a whole lot more if training under part 61.

All of that is assuming a 61 school, when I worked at a 141 university school I did a lot more dual x-c as outlined in the syllabus.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:18 PM
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A little off from the original thread topic but since it was mentioned...

Right from the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (although I added the bold face):

(3) Cross-country time means—
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—
(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—
(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under §61.101(c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.


For the ATP there is no requirement to have LANDED 50 miles away. Just to have landed somewhere other than where you left from and at some point have wandered at least 50 miles away.

There's probably no help to the jump and banner pilots here; but it may help some of the CFIs see that they're not quite as far from that 500 miles for the ATP as they thought they were.

Last edited by JeffW85; 11-30-2009 at 01:25 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffW85
A little off from the original thread topic but since it was mentioned...

Right from the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (although I added the bold face):

(3) Cross-country time means—
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—
(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—
(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under §61.101(c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.


For the ATP there is no requirement to have LANDED 50 miles away. Just to have landed somewhere other than where you left from and at some point have wandered at least 50 miles away.

There's probably no help to the jump and banner pilots here; but it may help some of the CFIs see that they're not quite as far from that 500 miles for the ATP as they thought they were.
I don't think you actually have to land at another airport at all - just have wandered more than 50 NM from the departure airport before returning. My understanding is this is to accomodate military pilots who fly U2/spy aircraft and return to the original destination.
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