Pilot Pay
 

I saw a local classified ad today for an instructor looking for students. The instructor was offering free instruction. Nothing bothers me more than pilots working for free to build time. Why do we undercut ourselves for experience. If we are that poor with our experience than I suggest we get another rating or some additional training. Pilots need to get paid for what we do. We are professionals. It is okay to charge for what we do.
This industry is not going to pay pilots what we are worth until we stop working for free, paying to be a first officer, accepting below minimum wage pay, and WORKING FOR FREE. It is hard to attract smart people to this industry when they see what pilots make. Why work as a pilot when you can make a good living doing something else and then you can learn to fly for cheap from an instructor giving away lessons.
Maybe I am alone in thinking that if pilots could come together and realize that we are underpaid then we could make a stand and improve our situation. A wise pilot I work for once asked when I was considering a job, "Is that how much he values his life." I was thinking of flying this doctor, and he wasn't paying as much as I wanted. People put their life in our hands, and we are trusted with getting them home safely. Why then are we being paid peanuts when we have a priceless job? I believe it all comes down to our willingness to work for free. We can get paid really well if we realize that we control the pay scale.
Its time for pilots to come together. Lets start getting things going. I wouldn't know what to do to improve things, but I would like to hear what you all have to say.

I see you have one post. Have you read any of the 7600 threads in the regional forum or the 6200 threads in the majors forum? Unfortunately you are preaching to the choir.

We now return you to your normally scheduled rants.

Instead of writing to a forum that has the above mentioned numbers of posts on the exact same issue - why not spend time writing a letter to this instructor giving away free flight instruction?

USMCFLYR

that CFI he's talking about probably read those 6200 threads, and he's still doing that....

one day some student somewhere will demad FREE flight instruction... "John didn't charge me, why are you?? yes, you have a wife and a kid, but that's your problem"

makes me mad, OK rant over..

its hard to unite pilots to demand higher pay because there's always another pilot who will be glad to take your job and fly for nothing.

I think, to change this mindset of all the pilots, you have to start at the beginning, instructors have to teach students and explain these things, why industry sucks and that the dream of flying big shiny jets for a big pay is pretty much over if everyone accepts jobs for low pay. Second of all, even if this trend started and people stopped accepting jobs for low pay, you wouldn't be able to see the change in the industry for another 20+ years, so you're stuck back where you started because people will not wait that long. But if you had a massive, all airlines united, strike during a time when pilots are in a need. mhmm...maybe that would change things faster.....ok my rant is over too.

Once again...whats his email so we can write him a letter and tell him he is an idiot and to look harder for a paying gig. I wonder if the market was tough for say...hookers would they work for free? If they want to work for free tell them to volunteer at a homeless shelter! ::dismounting soap box::

I bet some of the hookers LIVE at the homeless shelter.

I'd like to start by saying that I agree that pilots are under-compensated for their training and experience. You have no argument there.

However, I don't think current pilots can have as much control on their situation as you hope they can. The truth is that the factors of supply and demand are not in the favor of pilots, and pilots are not a unified group. The concerns of a regional captains who are making enough to get by even if they are grossly under-compensated aren't going to be very convincing to a CFI who is struggling to bring in students while having no health insurance and barely making (or not even making) enough to pay rent each month. And to the new commercial pilot/CFI with tens of thousands of dollars of debt who can't find work looks at that CFI and wishes he could at least be making something.

The truth is, there is only so long someone will remain unemployed before they are willing to accept less pay, and there is only so long that someone will stay at a job where they can't make ends meet before being willing to accept something that will at least put enough food on the table. The truth is, that no matter how hard a union works for good pay and work rules at a company, if there are too many unemployed pilots or too many pilots stuck at a lower level of employment, a new airline will be able to hire pilots for less pay and worse work rules, undercut the unionized airline and put them out of business.

It seems to me that the solution to poor compensation for pilots lies more in correcting supply and demand issues than getting pilots to stick together. Regulation may help (proposed rules requiring an ATP for any 121 pilot could help though they would probably be meaningless if they included exceptions for graduates for certain types of aviation schools). What seems like it would make the most difference is if people were fully informed when making the decision to enter aviation.

New pilots need to know that they may never get that position with a major airline, and that they will struggle a long time before getting it (if they ever do) before they have drained tens of thousands of dollars into training. Unfortunately, there's good money to be made giving people false expectations to get them into training, so you're even fighting an uphill battle there.

Alright - off the hooker soapbox and back onto the CFI instructing for free soapbox. That line can't lead to anything good!

USMCFLYR

Great idea Polish, but I've met instructors who are willing to fly for free:mad:. I wonder if they tell their students to instruct for free too...

You know, if a CFI wants to help someone (read: 1 person, not anyone) save some money by not charging, that's fine to me. But don't advertise it!!!

When I was getting my private in high school, I didn't have much money and I only worked a part time job so everything I made went towards flying. My instructor was kind enough to not charge me for my flight hours (I still paid for the plane) so that I could afford to fly. He realized that by forgoing a couple hundreds bucks, he was offering the chance for me to achieve my dream. He didn't need the money anyway. I have since payed it forward and have been training a close friend for his private, and no, I'm not charging him. I feel satisfaction in knowing I can provide the same opportunity that was given to me. As far as I'm concerned, doing this for 1 person is not an issue.

Just my .00000012 cents.

Aviation jobs are some of the only jobs that isn't done only by people looking to make money, it's also done by people who do it as "recreation"...

Please keep your recreation out of my profession.

I did send the instructor a email him about my issues with him posting an ad for free instruction. For some reason I have not heard back from him. I guess he probably disagreed with me. I am new to this forum stuff and was just wondering what you all thought and am glad to see your opinions.

I agree that supply and demand is a major factor. I am an optimist and believe that things will get better, yet I also believe we are going to have to be proactive as a whole for things to improve. The status quo does not look like the path we should be taking. I am just wondering what we can do to fix it. You make great points and educating the people coming into the field makes perfect sense. It would be nice if companies like AOPA would stand up and implement what you have suggested.

"companies like AOPA would stand up and implement what you have suggested."

AOPA, the outfit that owns "flight training" magazine? The place with the ATP flight academy and Gulfstream ads that promise a super career if you just write the check? Sorry, I canceled my AOPA subscription a while back. Still getting the junk mail, but I can't really blame them.

Agreed. Doing a buddy a favor is one thing, but saying that you don't charge for your time is another. I'd be very suspicious of getting into an airplane with somebody whose time is worthless.

Where was this post at? I've seen them on craigslist a lot.

Free Instruction
 

I have been helping out a kid at my church who's dad was locked up. Kid wants to be an Air Force pilot or a missionary pilot. He only pays for gas in the 150. My wife and my daughter get the instruction, plane and gas for free. Everyone else pays!

Here is the link
ksl.com - Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming

Exactly why this is a senseless argument. The "it's not a problem if I do it" rational is repeated thousands of times, and as a result, we have the pilot glut. Worse still, these folks don't see how this is a problem. Market forces work folks. Want to be paid well? Do something that is in demand.
:(
Z

This doesn't cover every case. There are circumstances where not charging is fine. My personal example was a barter agreement. I know others teaching family members. If you are running a business - not charging is one thing, quite a different thing in some other cases.

USMCFLYR

Thanks for posting the link. I will also send a polite message explaining why I think (like most of those here) that this hurts the pilot profession. Perhaps this person will realize this if they receive enough comments.

just remember.... free instruction... you get what you pay for :(