Davetastic

^^^Exactly^^^

AtlasPilot1

No one I know is claiming to attempt negotiations with mngmnt on APC...there are other channels for that through the union.

The information being presented here is for others to be informed and have a better picture of what is going on.

Davetastic

Agreed but I don't think anyone here is trying to negotiate. In my case, I am just trying to tone down the rhetoric and bring the wildly slanted exaggerations back toward the middle so that those interested may make an informed decision on Atlas. .....but yes we are underpaid.

Globemaster2827

... And I think we're doing a stellar job of informing them. If your options are Atlas or a Regional with Flow through plus a signing bonus then go with the Regional. Atlas is a pathetic job.

Davetastic

It seems as though you would take a regional job right now would you not? If Atlas is so pathetic why don't you leave? (rhetorical). In other words, Atlas is working for you right now so that is why Atlas is the best option for YOU....currently. If you have your apps out then obviously Atlas is a second choice. If you'd rather be at a regional or a 135 or another 121 and have applied but the phone isn't ringing ......." a bird in the hand.....". But to say that someone should take a regional job because it has a signing bonus and "flow through" (flow hasn't existed for years....it's called a CPP and it's subject to limitations depending on carrier), undermines one's position if they say one thing and do another.

I am not going to come on this forum and say a candidate should do this or that because I have no idea what is driving a particular persons decision making. Atlas works for ME and me alone for my particular situation. If any one of a multitude of variables changes in my situation then I will re-evaluate my decisions. I'll give my experience about Atlas but I will never say to anyone what they should or shouldn't do because it will all have been based on my life components and not someones else's.

To say Atlas is a "toxic work environment" in my opinion is a falsehood. If that were the case then the company would be subject to lawsuits. I come to work, the company follows the contract. When they don't, I decline to accept new pattern. Period. I have never been called in the the Chiefs office for declining. I have never flown with a crew that has had such a difference of opinion that has made it unsafe or "toxic". And if your opinion of a "toxic" work environment doesn't mean unsafe then how can it be SOOOO toxic"?

Bottom line: We are underpaid. We need better work rules. .....OH and EVERYONE SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM ATLAS AND I HOPE I GET FURLOUGHED BECAUSE THIS PLACE IS A SINKING SHIP AND I WANT TO BE UNEMPLOYED.....yada yada yada..... (sarcasm here in case I need to explain).

And before you come unglued Globemaster.....this post isn't for you personally, it's for ALL those who feel this way.

atpcliff

I mis-read the article. It stated that Atlas was PLANNING to sell it that quarter...they anticipated a buyer coming through...didn't happen.

Atlas is shutting the operation on that certificate down...

lear 31 pilot

Good post, like most things in this current internet based Alternative fact world most things are somewhere in the middle. That being said my motivation to help these fools in Purchase at all has been zero ever since they quit negotiating, and yes my apps are out at all the Legacies, and FedEx, UPS. But for most of us it's not as easy as just getting on next month at United/Delta, though it may get like that soon. My main objective is not to judge any new hire as not worthy of being at Atlas, that will not help our case, though I have quit recommending anyone come here.

DC8DRIVER

To pull out the old hack of "if it's so bad, why don't you just leave" is an extremely insulting and antagonistic thing to say to fellow pilots. It is totally appropriate to complain about the job I have AND warn others about coming to work at Atlas. There are many, many pilots trying to leave and who will leave when they get the chance, but because they haven't yet left that is by no means an endorsement of the company nor is it a reason to suggest that Atlas applicants should come here to work. Sometimes the people in a burning building are stuck there and cant break the window to jump, or want to wait for the firemen to bring the net, or believe it will eventually rain, but that doesn't mean that they would recommend that you take the elevator up to their office for an interview.

Unionism is not about helping yourself, it's all about helping out the group, including the group of guys that are trying to establish careers for themselves. In the long run, helping out the group IS helping yourself. Yes, you can say that any job is better than none, but that is not necessarily true. The future of Atlas is VERY uncertain right now and in the next year, a new hire may very well: 1. be furloughed, 2. be on strike, 3. be fired because of training issues, or 4. miss the hiring wave at other, more stable and rewarding airlines, etc., etc.

People come to these boards to get information and opinions. The current information contains facts that point to Atlas being a very bad place to work based on many, many popular and important factors. So if you "will never say to anyone what they should or shouldn't do" that is your prerogative, but that doesn't give you the right to criticize others for trying to help aspiring applicants make informed decisions.

Dave I know you've only been here two years or so and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but, as they say, you are not entitled to your own facts. Atlas does not follow the contract. Every day, there are scheduling issues, payroll issues, hotel issues, travel issues, training issues, catering issues, etc., etc. Every day. And these are not mistakes, it is a systemic culture within Atlas operations to disregard our contract. We have had this contract for five years and they STILL violate it on a daily basis. The sad part is that many pilots never know their contractual rights are being violated. The other sad part is that the company could fix most all of these violations very easily.

But the most egregious violation that we live with every day is the company's refusal to continue section 6 contract negotiations. This failure is costing you time, health, and a lot of pay every day, and yet you somehow cannot bring yourself to bring this paramount issue to the attention of Atlas applicants. That's fine if you have some real reason for keeping yourself out of that discussion, but you have spent the last 12 posts criticizing others for bringing this and other problems to the attention of applicants while defending your own position that things aren't so bad here.

The stress caused by Atlas management's refusal to follow our contract, to negotiate in good faith, and their recent decision to sue us, their own employees, is what is creating the toxic work environment, not interpersonal issues among the crews. Airline pilots are constantly trained to mitigate problems and reduce cockpit stress. Unfortunately, the decisions made by the management group at Atlas have increased this stress exponentially.

Safety is no longer their number one concern.

Money is.


8

Davetastic

JEEZ!! relax 8. If you actually every read any of my posts you would see that I agree with all of what you said regarding the hotel issues, catering, re-assignments, section 6 and on and on.....but it just doesn't happen to me as much as it apparently happens, according to you and the very small percentage of atlas pilots that post here, ALL THE TIME!!! But, it certainly doesn't get my blood pressure up because that will only affect me and shorten my life span....and that is something that I will not give up for any job.

To call it a flat refusal in the wake of a catering issue or transportation issue make me conjur up an image of the CEO standing over the scheduling or travel coordinator while on the phone saying, "...if that is CA so and so, go ahead and deny that request to send him a message". That **** just doesn't happen. And to say that Atlas compromises safety to save a nickel would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. Are you saying you have witnessed this sort of tactic or are you doing more chest thumping? If I saw it I would most certainly call them out on it!! ....but I just don't see it. You have taken a lot of what I have said out of context and even this reply isn't worth trying to explain myself to someone like who will not listen nor is it worth trying to explain myself the the very small handful of Atlas pilots that post here trying to paint a distorted and exaggerated picture of reality. I'm just bringing it back to the middle.

Davetastic

So 8, after all of that, this is for you:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9d...ew?usp=sharing