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Old 09-07-2017, 08:29 AM   #16301  
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Dude, I'm here, I'm with you, I want a new contract. But you (older guys) need a serious reality check. We are NEVER running out of applicants, EVER. So I sure hope there is another plan.
The fact is that Atlas IS having trouble filling classes. Moreover, Atlas is having trouble keeping the new hires that they get.

It's true that pilots are being hired, but the qualifications of some of the applicants we are getting are much lower than they should be for an airline that does what we do. That, combined with the lack of training from the schoolhouse could very well result in a serious incident someday soon.

But the bean counters won't see that until they get slapped with a major violation or they have to write off an airplane as a total loss.

I'm glad you want a new contract. Not a very hard thing to want. But wanting one isn't enough. The union has a multi-faceted approach to their plan of attack and one of them is NOT recruiting pilots to join Atlas.

8
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:35 AM   #16302  
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Originally Posted by WhipWhitaker View Post
Dude, I'm here, I'm with you, I want a new contract. But you (older guys) need a serious reality check. We are NEVER running out of applicants, EVER. So I sure hope there is another plan.
This plus 1000....

As a former Atlas pilot who used Atlas to wait out my current employer, I'd much rather fly a 747 around the world then fly an RJ. I will say that I came to Atlas hoping to stay for the long haul, but after 9 months I thought it best to move on and was fortunate enough to have an opportunity with a great company who values their employees. I'd say about 2/3 of the captains that I've flown with here at SWA have said they'd love to have flown the 747. Going to be hard to stop guys from coming over to get a once in a lifetime opportunity to fly the whale while they wait for their dream job.

Just an observation from a former 5Y guy. I hope you guys get the contract that you deserve and are worth. It sounds like you can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully that light isn't a runaway locomotive....

Good Luck, I'm pulling for you guys!!!
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:04 PM   #16303  
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Dude, I'm here, I'm with you, I want a new contract. But you (older guys) need a serious reality check. We are NEVER running out of applicants, EVER. So I sure hope there is another plan.
I agree with this 100% and I believe that the attrition numbers, or "not filing classes" argument was always weak and a losing strategy. They don't care what quality of applicant they are getting as long as they get them, and they are. -Wait for the economy to tank, cancel a 747 contract, buy another airline, whatever their strategy is and will be, it's better than ours of: "they can't fill classes! people are leaving! Dumpster fire!" Zero evidence of this working right now.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:03 PM   #16304  
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Dude, I'm here, I'm with you, I want a new contract. But you (older guys) need a serious reality check. We are NEVER running out of applicants, EVER. So I sure hope there is another plan.
So why is Delta working on plans to hire people with 0 hours of flying experience??? Several Delta pilots I have talked to in person, or have posted on the internet, have said they are planning for possible Ab-Initio hiring, just like the US military.

It is because the Pilot Shortage is getting worse and worse.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:14 PM   #16305  
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Because it's a smart move.
Pass assessments and psych tests.
Get monitored during flight school, pay a nickel and dime retainer when they're instructing then Delta owned Regional then cherry pick who you want for mainline.
Perfect plan.
"Employed" by Delta at 18? People will sign their life away
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:43 PM   #16306  
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Incorrect.
Delta is developing plans to hire people with 0 hours, and pay to train them, just like the foreign carrier's do with their cadet system, and just like the military does.

It's the Pilot Shortage.

It's the same reason that a pilot for either FedEx/UPS posted that his HR department told him that after about 2019, they had no idea how they would find any candidates to interview.

It's the same reason that AA HR said they now have 3000 applicants on file that met their minimum requirements, down from 13,000 in 2007. AA currently requires an ATP only: No four year degree, no PIC, no turbine time.

It's the same reason that Hawaiian last year went from thousands of applicants, to hundreds, in less than 6 months.

It's the same reason that SWA dropped their type rating, and their PIC requirements.

It's the same reason that UAL dropped their 4 year degree requirement. They also don't have any PIC requirements.

It's the same reason that DAL will accept applicants with: Commercial license w/ instrument rating, no PIC, 50 hours fixed-wing multiengine.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:11 PM   #16307  
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Incorrect.
Delta is developing plans to hire people with 0 hours, and pay to train them, just like the foreign carrier's do with their cadet system, and just like the military does.

It's the Pilot Shortage.

It's the same reason that a pilot for either FedEx/UPS posted that his HR department told him that after about 2019, they had no idea how they would find any candidates to interview.

It's the same reason that AA HR said they now have 3000 applicants on file that met their minimum requirements, down from 13,000 in 2007. AA currently requires an ATP only: No four year degree, no PIC, no turbine time.

It's the same reason that Hawaiian last year went from thousands of applicants, to hundreds, in less than 6 months.

It's the same reason that SWA dropped their type rating, and their PIC requirements.

It's the same reason that UAL dropped their 4 year degree requirement. They also don't have any PIC requirements.

It's the same reason that DAL will accept applicants with: Commercial license w/ instrument rating, no PIC, 50 hours fixed-wing multiengine.


I still can't get a call from the big 3 or swa. Over 8000 hrs, ME turbine PIC time, 4 year degree with a high gpa, volunteer work, no failures. Guess they're not that desperate yet.


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Old 09-07-2017, 02:33 PM   #16308  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
So why is Delta working on plans to hire people with 0 hours of flying experience??? Several Delta pilots I have talked to in person, or have posted on the internet, have said they are planning for possible Ab-Initio hiring, just like the US military.
If you were a Delta pilot, you would know better than to fall for what we say, especially on the internet.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #16309  
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no shortage. delta has 5000 applicants for their Career Expo. No shortage, stop saying it
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:47 PM   #16310  
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I still can't get a call from the big 3 or swa. Over 8000 hrs, ME turbine PIC time, 4 year degree with a high gpa, volunteer work, no failures. Guess they're not that desperate yet.


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They will get more and more desperate, as the retirements, hiring, and demand all kick in.

UAL plans to hire 1200 in 2018, DAL is 700-800 in 2017, so plan on more than that in 2018 due to increased retirements, AA planned to hire 750 in 2017, so plan more than that in 2018 due to increased retirements. FedEx is at about 800 for 2017. UPS is about at 300 for 2017. SWA I have no idea, but they are hiring.

So, just using the above, for 2018, conservatively expect 4000 pilots hired at The Big 6. The hiring in 2019 is expected to be greater than 2018, due to even more retirements. If the AA list is already down to 3000 minimally qualified pilots, expect the list to be closer to zero than 3000. The will get some new applicants every year, but the number of new pilots has been trending down for many years.

Many people have the same apps in at UAL/DAL/AA/FedEx/UPS/SWA, or various combinations of the above. Each time someone is hired at the above, it pulls multiple applications out of the system.
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