Hellafo

So sad man, I had an interview coming up and cancelled it. To me the decision is solely based on money. I hope people stop applying and showing up so you guys and girls get a proper contract

sandstorm

I would think the next step would be the company filing a lawsuit and suing the pilots for the combined seniority list so that they can start the countdown to get the amalgamation they so badly want.

DC8DRIVER

Most of us are constantly trying to leave. Over 200 pilots have left in the past year. We are just trying to give inquiring pilots the information they need to avoid making a career mistake. With the rate of hiring at the majors, getting heavy time does not have the importance that PIC time does when applying to career airlines. The majors are hiring future captains, not heavy metal cruise FO's which is essentially what Atlas new hires (in the 747) would be for the first couple of years here. Unfortunately, too many regional pilots have an irrational desire to fly the 747 and this clouds good career decisions. Aspiring airline pilots should be looking for the fastest path to a career destination instead of wasting valuable years beating up their bodies flying as a galley maid on 16 hour legs to what are turning into shorter and shorter layovers. It's not a great way to see the world. Better to get on with United and have the travel perks and money to take the family on a proper vacation rather than trying to sightsee (and get adequate rest) on a 20 hour layover.

Actually, your question is an insult those of us who are fighting a war over here with management. Obviously, more pilots on the seniority list would have nothing to do with anyone taking our jobs away from us. On the contrary, a larger pilot group would mean job security as the junior pilots would provide furlough protection for senior pilots. The only real negative of having new hires here is that they arrive and find that the first year pay is so low (despite our warnings) that they have to pick up open time just to make ends meet. This has the effect of weakening our contract because management sees that pilots are content to work 20 or 25 days a month and this becomes the new baseline that they start from during contract negotiations. They'll say: "well, it seems that pilots prefer to work a higher average of days per month than you are currently contractually obligated to work, so lets make our minimum days at work 18 or 20 days a month". Of course, this has little impact on the new hires as they are largely the group that is leaving for better jobs once the luster of the big jet syndrome wears off.

That's probably not what aspiring new hires want to hear, but the truth is that Atlas is not now a good career choice nor is it a pleasant (or lucrative) place to work. And based on the glacial pace that Atlas management is moving in contract negotiations, it's not going to get better any time soon.

DC8DRIVER

Fortunately, the pilots are contractually protected from this happening. Oh, they could file a lawsuit, but they wouldn't be able to win it.

BluePAX

Not detracting from your overall points, but if in negotiations the union simply rebuts with “how many 3+ year pilots are picking up extra time?” that would speak for itself. The company would be forced to concede that it is indeed low pay that is making guys pick up flying. And coupled with attrition I think a good case is made.

TiredSoul

An airplane doesn’t move with just 2 FO’s, or 3.......
Your fellow captains pick up just as much overtime. But it’s easier to lean on the new guy.
Besides, you’re not fighting for a new contract so that the new guy can get paid more.
Your argument is invalid.

DC8DRIVER

That's true........

DC8DRIVER

Nowhere did I say that it was only the new hire FO's that were picking up open time, but there are more open time trips for FO's than captains.

And, speaking for myself, I am fighting for a better contract for ALL Atlas pilots. In this business if you are only out for yourself, you are missing the most critical point of being a professional pilot. This might be a point for you to consider since even an SWA avoids this kind of attitude. Much better to take that kind of thinking to fly those MIG's in Africa for $2,000/hr.

TiredSoul

@DC8,
You know all well as I do that if no FO volunteers they’ll fly with 2 captains, even 3 if they have to.
New guy not picking up OT is not going to change anything.
Freight needs to move. If it costs $10-$15k more to do it, nobody cares.
The margins are still big enough.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: leaning on the NEW guys not to pick up OT is cowardly and sanctimonious.
You KNOW Union guys and senior captains are picking up overtime yet nothing is being said.
Easier to intimidate the new guy.
By your own admission you’ve been at Atlas for almost 3 years now.
On this forum you’ve contributed nothing but moan and cry and complain from day 1. Your bottle necked OE yadayadayada.
Cry me a river.
For some reason you can’t leave or won’t leave despite having all the opportunity to do so in the current market.
Somehow your glass seems to be half empty.
Mine is half full buddy.
Cheers

DC8DRIVER

Wrong on so many counts - but not worth debating someone that will never be on board with the group.

Continue to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks. The rest of us will take care of business for you. Fortunately, you are in a very small cluster of people who don't care to lift a finger to help the cause.