Davetastic

What is your comparison to say that Atlas has the "worst in the industry"? Where did you accomplish your training and how many airlines have you received a type from to draw such a conclusion? I think prospective candidates here would like to hear concrete evidence instead of a fleeting comment without any support to back up the claim.

I'm not goading you....I am curious too because my experience now that I have received two types from Atlas is that despite having taken a step back so to speak having come from an AQP airline is that I thought I was well prepared to take the types. Perhaps it is a mindset in ones approach to training that lays the foundation for success. Instead of showing up and expecting to be spoon fed, which at Atlas will definetly not happen, one would think that when a career is on the line expecting ANY training department to carry you is precarious at best. My experience at Atlas was that every instructor all the way up to S.A. was there to see you succeed provided you put in the time and effort.

I think that career preparation in any field is about attitude, aptitude and preparedness. Perhaps this is another area especially during contentious contract negotiations while the company is under the microscope, where it is easier to assign blame to others than to own it. I don't think that Atlas training has anything to do with those getting pinked or leaving. People are leaving because they are chasing the money. People are getting pinked at a normal rate as any other airline because they are not coming prepared mentally, or they had a bad day. Of all the posts here claiming that Atlas has the "highest failure rates", there has been zero statistical data to quantify those statements. Sure there is a learning curve coming from a King Air to a B767 but there are plenty of those guys getting through no problem. Besides, the Feds signed off on Atlas training and the company can't do a thing to our training standards without the union crying foul(as it should be) so if there is blame to be assigned at this point for the perceived "poor training" at Atlas, I think it is a two way street and the only drivers are the union and the company. As I understand it, there are a couple of reasons why Atlas doesn't have AQP; The POI is a hold out, and the other is that union and company can't agree on it's implementation rules.

Readers understand your opinion, that is easy to grasp...you hate Atlas but you are still enjoying the benefits of being employed by your loathed carrier, but what readers here don't understand is, what is your expectation of training at Atlas? How are you "on your own" and how does that differ from any other training department? Don't you roll the dice EVERYTIME you put yourself in front of a fed whether that be for a PPL or a type regardless of where your training was accomplished? The two events are mutually exclusive. The standards set forth to pass a type or any checking event don't change if you were to complete your training at ABC vs XYZ carrier. If you completed your training at a 121 carrier, it means that their training department has met the standards with which to present to the standards a candidate for a checkride. I think the company and the training department are separate yet related entities. While I disagree with the direction of negotiations and the companies approach to the negotiations to date, I think the training department is not a reflection of the companies demeanor toward the pilot group as it relates to negotiations.

TiredSoul

Thank you Davetastic.
@ Cruzer, if you’re truly that miserable you have the option of giving up your seat to somebody who really wants to be here.
Apart from one post where you complain you didn’t get hired at UPS all you’ve done on this forum is post negativily about Atlas.

sandstorm

Davetastic and TiredSoul.... you guys have bright futures in airline management if you so desire.

Davetastic

Just because I ask pointed question about TRAINING comparisons doesn't make me a "company guy". If you had read ANY of my posts, you'd realize that I agree with our solidarity message and with our union. Our training department doesn't need to be beaten up because guys are failing out of training. Guys get re-trained at EVERY airline and there are pink slips to be handed out at every airline as well. If you are unable or unwilling to recognize that pilots own their training and not the training department, then you are in the wrong profession.

And btw Sandstorm,....you can go on and beat me up on this forum like the internet tough guy that you are but why don't you answer the question: What is YOUR expectation of training at Atlas? You and Cruzer both, without substantiating your position, look like trolls and a position without credibility will most likely be ignored by prospective new hires which contradicts your ultimate goal of trying to steer possible pilot candidates away.

TiredSoul

No desire Sandy.
But I’m here to actually be helpful and maybe informative instead of just regurgitating vitriol you’ve been fed.

Screwed

Sandstorm...they don't understand that by sugar coating they are actually helping the company.

Of course now they will deny that they sugar coat.

The truth is that there is worse training in the industry AND there is training that is a hell of a lot better.

The biggest problem with Atlas training is that we have certain instructors that are only there to maximize their personal pay check. Not every instructor is like that.....but there are too many who don't give a **** about the student and only care about the paycheck.

Davetastic

Sure, that is how it works, when someone disagrees with the interwebz, attack them with insults and call them company men. Injecting discord and malcontent into the psyche of prospective candidates intentionally, subconsciously or otherwise is an age old worn out tactic and it is easily spotted but I'll bite. How did I "sugar coat" anything? How am I helping the company? All I did was ask a question to which you and the others have yet to answer.....What do you expect from training? AT ANY AIRLINE? Do you believe that there are instructors at United or American who teach because it is their passion and would forgo the pay override?

What do you consider worse? or better training than Atlas? How do you quantify your statement and where is your comparative analysis?




crickets.

White Cap

You are correct. There has been so much worse in this industry in training. No ACMI has better training than Atlas, maybe with the exception of ABX back in the day. ABX "ate their own children" and made life miserable for new hires, or so I have heard. Funny, our TC sits on 36th Street. Maybe a historian should give a talk to new hires about Miami aviation history. It would be amusing, and I am somewhat proud to have survived those trash bag airlines. I asked our IBT rep in the TC about failures, and he didn't see a change in the percentage, only now they are training large groups on the -400 (hence 3X the failure rate). HR has thrown some knuckleheads into 767 training, but for the most part I see a lot of pretty sharp folk on the twin. Washing out guys who maybe shouldn't be on a flight deck is a good thing. A good student who listens and has the requisite skills should not fail the program (especially the 767 program).

TiredSoul

I’m telling you about my experience.
No more no less.
This forum stuff works really easy.
Just check somebody’s threads and postings.
If it’s just ****ing and moaning for 3 years on just one thread you know they’re here for only one reason.
To **** and moan.
One didn’t get hired by UPS and the other didn’t get hired at AA.
So they accepted a job offer at Atlas then feel sorry for themselves and
**** and moan,
**** and moan,
**** and moan,
Ad Infinitum,
Ad nauseum...

Davetastic

This is the kind of stuff prospective candidates want to read about and thanks for that.

I have talked and flown with a lot of you guys too. Where you guys have come from and what you have survived over the years is amazing. My aviation career has not been as colorful or storied. GA, CFI, RJ, here. I have not had to endure any furloughs(I missed the one at XJT, but I was forced to do a trans-con commute), but one thing I learned flying pax was I knew I never wanted to do that again. Sure, we need a contract and fast but what S.A has done with our training department has all but mirrored what I went through year over year at XJT with the one exception being the lack of AQP. FWIW, our PT and the RLOFT is a step in the right direction.

I have said it before, our training department is not a reflection of the company demeanor toward our pilot group. Everyone instructor is there to help you pass. I have personally witnessed guys whom I passed judgment upon and did not give a chance to pass solely because of the lack of airline background or heavy equipment experience. Turns out those guys worked very hard and passed without any re-training. On the other hand, I had a guy in my class who was typed in the A/C and washed out. He didn't work, or study and assumed that the PC would be handed to him. He blamed everyone except himself. He brought his sim partner up on a complaint to the TC. He was ultimately fired and I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I don't want to fly with those types. Who does? And I should know, because I am a knucklehead !! lol.