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Old 04-14-2018, 10:43 AM   #17011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davetastic View Post
Yup. Same with ANC. The Jabara event was exacerbated by the crew not following the SOP's. And the LAX incident was a wind shear event. None of these events have anything to do with the narrative that 8 mentioned above......but if we mention it we are ANTI UNION.

I am not anti union and I am sure that TiredSoul isn't either. Just keep unrelated events out of the argument.
ALL the incidents were exacerbated by the crews not following SOP's. But that's not the point. The point was that toxicity caused by contractual issues is not the cause of these incidents.

And the LAX incident I refer to was a NMAC, not the pod strike. Again, neither of which were caused by this "toxicity" you dream about.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:55 AM   #17012
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... but it is only toxic to the point that you allow it to affect you!

So, what can I do? Should I spin out of control, or go home to my family and leave work behind while I am still employed by Atlas for the time being. That is all I am suggesting.
The "toxic" environment that everyone else refers to is the relationship between the company and the pilots.

The "toxic" environment that you refer to is the relationship you seem to think exists between you and other crewmembers who disagree with your assessment that life at Atlas is just fine. I haven't ever experienced any toxicity in the cockpit unless you count being pressured by maintenance control or management to fly an illegal or unsafe airplane. It is never with other created by other crewmembers.

As far as what you can do ... you could join your union brothers and sisters and walk a picket line if you have not already done so. Perhaps you could also keep your criticism of the union directed (constructively) at the union stewards where your suggestions might do some good and not aired directly into the public domaine where it would only hurt solidarity.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:41 PM   #17013
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I was going to respond to your Diatribe 8 but holy cow, you are just too "toxic". Hahahahahaha!

But seriously, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Your argument doesn't get better just because you yell and bang your drum louder(my wife tells me that). I have told you and others countless times that I agree with you but just because the items that are being discussed are being viewed from a different perspective I am being vilified, verbally assaulted, accused of being a company man and the like. It only makes those that are committing those actions appear close minded.


At one point I thought we had a Koombaya moment......oh well. Nevermind.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:43 PM   #17014
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I think both of you guys are great. Maybe we ought to talk about this stuff over drinks together instead of airing it out on a public forum that's viewed by all parties? There are some very nice places with awesome service, all of which aren't on the internet. Who knows, we could become lifelong friends, share photos of our kids and hunt antelope?
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:35 AM   #17015
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I have told you and others countless times that I agree with you but just because the items that are being discussed are being viewed from a different perspective I am being vilified, verbally assaulted, accused of being a company man and the like. It only makes those that are committing those actions appear close minded.
This ^^^^^^^
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:58 AM   #17016
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The new Spirit CBA cliff notes are up under "Airline Profiles." Not bad for a crappy little LCC that nobody likes. 11% direct contrib is nice. Seems like people have poo poo'ed over this CBA on the other board, but sadly this is lightyears ahead of Atlas. The soft time and time off seems fairly decent also.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:15 PM   #17017
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All the increasingly rancorous rhetoric on these pages aside, all one really has to do in order to gauge how things have changed for the worse at Atlas is to compare the postings of 2010 or so to those made recently. The feeling around here was considerably different then. Perhaps one day that will change again for the better. It will be quite some time, though.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM   #17018
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
The "toxic" environment that everyone else refers to is the relationship between the company and the pilots.

The "toxic" environment that you refer to is the relationship you seem to think exists between you and other crewmembers who disagree with your assessment that life at Atlas is just fine. I haven't ever experienced any toxicity in the cockpit unless you count being pressured by maintenance control or management to fly an illegal or unsafe airplane. It is never with other created by other crewmembers.

As far as what you can do ... you could join your union brothers and sisters and walk a picket line if you have not already done so. Perhaps you could also keep your criticism of the union directed (constructively) at the union stewards where your suggestions might do some good and not aired directly into the public domaine where it would only hurt solidarity.
Lets see, the Atlas Facebook page GCComms moderates and censors members posts before they are viewable along with booting off anyone identified as FPL bylaw supporter that passed by majority vote or members regularly expressing an opinion contrary to the "Kirchner Youth Program" (P2P) is told to say. Also remember to thank your leadership for using a medium (facebook) that data mines the members information and anyone in their personal contact list on their phones via messenger and etc. I believe that is at approximately 87 million victims and counting now in which our leadership said that it's Facebook fault despite it being told to them before implementing the facebook page that data mining is what facebook does for their "free" service and we are now living with the results of that decision. While no one expected exactly a Cambridge Analytical event, no one should be surprised especially when it was forewarned what was at risk.

The Atlas ExCo stops all membership posts to Atlas 1224 private web forums by removing all the moderators that approved, deleted, censored members postings. Like on facebook, all posts had to be approved first before being made viewable. At least we could fight among ourselves in our private forum without much worry about our information being mined. The Atlas ExCo and Comms guys said it was Local 1224 initiative to kill the forums but the President of the local says that they were only discussing taking down the forums to save money but had not decided on an action yet. I lean towards the ExCo stretching the truth on this, again. That is why they are still viewable on our website but our Atlas ExCo decided on their own to "control the narrative" of our group and effectively stopped the use of the Atlas web forums by removing the moderators. So no posts get approved for viewing. That is why there are currently two months of inactivity on it now. Local 1224 still has them up for all the other carriers in our local, but the Atlas ExCo wants to control what is said on theirs. While the forums were not super active with posts it had a number of lurkers. The communications committee push of members towards the facebook site did slow the forums down. The Atlas forums were a place you had a modicum of a chance to get posted due to equal use of union assets where the facebook page had none of that.

So, there are not a lot of places for our members to go if they have anything slightly different to express that doesn't follow the Kirchner Youth Movement diatribe. So you can blame those past ExCo actions on guys going to public forums.

I was toying with the idea of creating a private facebook like social media for our group. There are open source ones out there that provide about an equivalent product as facebook with web forums included.

Was thinking the moderation would be like here or used to be before 1224 finally took over communications. Posts moderated AFTER posting for compliance to terms of service and not BEFORE where you get censored, deleted, or ignored for post approval as has been going on at Atlas media.

Last edited by suddenimpact; Yesterday at 10:08 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #17019
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Lets see, the Atlas Facebook page GCComms moderates and censors members posts before they are viewable along with booting off anyone identified as FPL bylaw supporter that passed by majority vote or members regularly expressing an opinion contrary to the "Kirchner Youth Program" (P2P) is told to say. Also remember to thank your leadership for using a medium (facebook) that data mines the members information and anyone in their personal contact list on their phones via messenger and etc. I believe that is at approximately 87 million victims and counting now in which our leadership said that it's Facebook fault despite it being told to them before implementing the facebook page that data mining is what facebook does for their "free" service and we are now living with the results of that decision. While no one expected exactly a Cambridge Analytical event, no one should be surprised especially when it was forewarned what was at risk.

The Atlas ExCo stops all membership posts to Atlas 1224 private web forums by removing all the moderators that approved, deleted, censored members postings. Like on facebook, all posts had to be approved first before being made viewable. At least we could fight among ourselves in our private forum without much worry about our information being mined. The Atlas ExCo and Comms guys said it was Local 1224 initiative to kill the forums but the President of the local says that they were only discussing taking down the forums to save money but had not decided on an action yet. I lean towards the ExCo stretching the truth on this, again. That is why they are still viewable on our website but our Atlas ExCo decided on their own to "control the narrative" of our group and effectively stopped the use of the Atlas web forums by removing the moderators. So no posts get approved for viewing. That is why there are currently two months of inactivity on it now. Local 1224 still has them up for all the other carriers in our local, but the Atlas ExCo wants to control what is said on theirs. While the forums were not super active with posts it had a number of lurkers. The communications committee push of members towards the facebook site did slow the forums down. The Atlas forums were a place you had a modicum of a chance to get posted due to equal use of union assets where the facebook page had none of that.

So, there are not a lot of places for our members to go if they have anything slightly different to express that doesn't follow the Kirchner Youth Movement diatribe. So you can blame those past ExCo actions on guys going to public forums.

I was toying with the idea of creating a private facebook like social media for our group. There are open source ones out there that provide about an equivalent product as facebook with web forums included.

Was thinking the moderation would be like here or used to be before 1224 finally took over communications. Posts moderated AFTER posting for compliance to terms of service and not BEFORE where you get censored, deleted, or ignored for post approval as has been going on at Atlas media.
In other words.....

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Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #17020
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All the increasingly rancorous rhetoric on these pages aside, all one really has to do in order to gauge how things have changed for the worse at Atlas is to compare the postings of 2010 or so to those made recently. The feeling around here was considerably different then. Perhaps one day that will change again for the better. It will be quite some time, though.
Spot on, Talon.
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