DC8DRIVER

Says the guy who attacks virtually everyone who criticizes Atlas. There is hardly an anti-Atlas post that you haven't contested.

I pity the poor pilots who are interested in Atlas who have to wade through hundreds of these bickering posts. This tone alone would be enough to turn most folks away from our company.

Davetastic

To whom have I said that their opinion is wrong or called dumb or a "management stooge" as I have been throughout these threads? I have never called you wrong for you opinion. I respect your passion too but just because I don't see it that way doesn't mean I should be attacked, ridiculed and mocked by you and other union reps. for it. I don't contest that our contract needs improvement which I have said all along but I certainly have called out the BS. Like I just said, you and others have embarked on an attrition campaign and I think it is a poor strategy.

NONE and I mean NONE of you attackers has EVER answered a debate question. The focus of your campaign is to inject hysteria and stir up emotions. I can't stress enough that NONE of that strategy will get us any closer to the goal of a better contract. Instead of talking about that point right there, the attrition and hysteria strategy, you have all embarked on personally attacking me and making your focus against me. The next time one of you attack, try addressing the topic of debate: The debate topic is about my opinion that the union has embarked on a failed attrition and hysteria campaign.

And btw, you just did it again. You cherry picked from my post, took it out of context to make a personal attack and failed to answer the question.

This is what I actually wrote: "But anyway, IF I am just an outsider who is not plugged into the company or the union, why are you and the others so afraid of my opinion that you and others are constantly attacking me personally and dodging the questions instead of engaging me or others that I have defended in the topic of debate?"

zerozero

For some reason, Dave is under the impression he gets to determine the TOPIC and the proper RESPONSE.

Everyone else is talking about all the wrong things.

So, please, everyone! Stop complaining. Come together, cross your fingers, hold each others hands and if you wish hard, I'm mean really wish HARD, one day, just maybe one day, Atlas too will enjoy something that vaguely resembles industry standard pay and work conditions.

JT8D

The debate topic is about your opinion???

This thread is and always has been dedicated to the topic of the hiring process at Atlas.

Thusly, it IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD. This thread has also been in existence for far longer than you've even been registered on APC.

You ARE NOT the moderator here and you DO NOT determine the agenda for debate topics.

Get off your high horse and realize that nobody gives two fkks about your opinion. Then go start your little "debate" thread somewhere else.

Globemaster2827

It's probably best if we all stop feeding the troll... If he doubts what he's hearing maybe he should just call someone on the ExCo or a Steward and ask.... In the mean time back to talking to new hires about Atlas.

Davetastic

The debate is and will remain that you and others continually engage in personal attacks when I temper the histrionics and hyperbole on the hiring thread when i merely offer my opinion to the new hires that things are not all doom and gloom as you and the others have painted it. Then, when asked direct questions, you avoid answering those questions and ramp up more personal attacks instead of engaging in debate.

Davetastic

You are twisting my words and manipulating what I am trying to say. I have never said that your response is wrong because it is not right or wrong as I have said many times over. Nor have I said that I determine what the topic of debate is until you cause drift about my opinion and then it spirals out of control from that point. I just don't like that when readers of this thread and other threads ask questions about what it is like at Atlas, and I am personally attacked for a difference of opinion instead of being able to get honest answers for my questions about the state of our negotiations or hiring or whatever.

I too hope that one day Atlas' pay and work rules resemble industry standard and I too hope that we can stop the back and forth because it is very divisive. I know the position of the union and I hope you too know mine but I will not change my message either. So let's agree to disagree.

Davetastic

Continually brow beating and mocking those with a difference of opinion does not strengthen your position. Yelling louder that someone is wrong for their position doesn't make your position right.

You ALL have said Atlas sucks. Great we get it. Then leave, or stay...who cares anymore. In contrast, I have said that Atlas' contract needs a lot of improving but that comparatively life could be a lot worse (for me) and I have been demonized for that perspective. In the meantime however, I have never said that your opinion is wrong nor have I said that your feelings or experiences are invalid. I have also said that I think our union tactics are overplayed, antagonistic and counterproductive but instead of giving reasons why perhaps you feel that my opinion may be misguided, I am just ridiculed and we all come out looking like a bunch of infighting fools. Screaming and yelling at me for my opinion is not a very effective method for promoting solidarity nor is it a very persuasive way to get me to see your point.

DC8DRIVER

To virtually everyone you say their opinion is wrong.

If someone says that the union strategy is good, you'll say it is bad. To someone who says that we have high attrition, you say we don't. To someone who says that life at Atlas is toxic, you say it isn't. There has hardly been a negative opinion post about Atlas that you have not contested in the last year.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I don't deny that but do not pretend to be offended when others say that your opinion is wrong when you do that all the time. But the horse you are beating has long since turned into dust.

You also mislead and falsify. When you say that you were "mocked by you and other union reps" you imply that I am a union rep. I am absolutely not a union representative. I am a strong union supporter, but do not hold any position in the union other than member. I assume this is your "equivalent" to your being labeled a "company guy". I can understand your thought process on this one because it fairly well depicts our differences. I support the union. You do not.

Further more, you act offended by "name calling" when you say things like the following:
Readers will clearly come to their own opinion on that post ...

As to your assertion that your almighty original question has not been answered, I say you are wrong.

I know that life at Atlas sucks right now only because management has taken a very bad stance on our contract negotiations. I post my opinions here. I believe that aspiring Atlas pilots need to hear this. Getting information on a prospective job is why they read these messages. You feel that any resulting attrition will not affect contract negotiations. Yet not only do you offer no options, but you persist in the belief that the best way to change the course of the union is to incessantly blast away on these boards instead of personally engaging your union representatives and offering constructive criticism.

Either that or maybe you just like to argue for arguments sake.

Either way, you are in a very tiny minority of posters who offer nothing constructive to your fellow Atlas pilots or aspiring Atlas pilots.

Just arguments.

Like the one you'll be posting in next. Unfortunately.

JackStraw

No one has personally attacked you, Bungalow. I think most are just growing weary from your long-winded diatribes that just go round and round and round. Let’s just leave it at the “agree to disagree” and move on.