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Is sexism/racism still an issue?

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Is sexism/racism still an issue?

Old 01-10-2017, 10:33 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
Yes, there are some weak and insecure female pilots out there that have attitude problems and rationalize everything away - but there are weak and insecure male pilots that do that, too.
Agreed, no different.

And let's be honest, we all know guys that default to a "she's a B" attitude when faced with a strong female personality and that is what I'm talking about.
Agreed on that too. And we ALL KNOW the ones that default to "it's because I'm a woman blah blah blah" when it's more like "no, it's because you suck"

All the time I spent in the left seat, where "mentorship" is specifically outlined in the FOM, it was amazing how direct you can be with a weak male FO that may be performing substandard vs. how "sensitive" you have to be with a weak female FO.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:09 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by poor pilot View Post
Just the numbers.
Another interesting chart would be interview success rate broken down by the same demographic.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano View Post
Another interesting chart would be interview success rate broken down by the same demographic.
It truly is a shame that those numbers would NEVER be released.

But I've always thought the same.

The number/stats of md (majority demographic) pilots interviewed vs. hired compared to omd (outside majority demographic) interviewed vs. hired. If someone were to say they were the same, I'd have a hard time believing them.

Now, I KNOW someone (NOT YOU) is going to cry "but....but....I know an OMD pilot that wasn't hired!!!!!!"

Yeah, SO DO I. In some cases it caused me to scratch my head wondering why, in others, not so much........
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:42 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by 742Dash View Post
My daughter is an engineer, working for a large company that hires a disproportionate number of female engineers. They are not trying too, it is simply a result of their putting a high priority on social skills during the interview process.
Is she single? Does she have single co-workers? Where is this magical place you speak of?
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:24 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by NMuir View Post
Is she single? Does she have single co-workers? Where is this magical place you speak of?
Sorry, but she brought a guy home this past weekend.

As for where, lets just say that it is cold and has a lot of cows. And really good ice cream.
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:49 AM
  #56  
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Interesting thread. Do you think there’s any sort of unspoken bias that causes pilots who look like stereotypical pilots to be hired over others?

For example, during a recent trip, I had a long layover at Hobby and noticed most Southwest pilots were tall men who looked like they played football in high school. If I were to pursue becoming a pilot, would it be a detriment to my career if I’m short and look like I played soccer in high school? In other words, I look more like Eric from Entourage (Kevin Connolly) than Sully from Sully (Tom Hanks).

Do any of you think there is a hiring bias in which pilots who look like a traditional American pilot get hired over pilots who don't look the part, even with similar resumes and experience?

*I'm asking from the standpoint of a curious potential career changer. I'm not a bitter pilot trying to justify why I'm not employed by a major airline yet.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhounddog View Post
Interesting thread. Do you think there’s any sort of unspoken bias that causes pilots who look like stereotypical pilots to be hired over others?

For example, during a recent trip, I had a long layover at Hobby and noticed most Southwest pilots were tall men who looked like they played football in high school. If I were to pursue becoming a pilot, would it be a detriment to my career if I’m short and look like I played soccer in high school? In other words, I look more like Eric from Entourage (Kevin Connolly) than Sully from Sully (Tom Hanks).

Do any of you think there is a hiring bias in which pilots who look like a traditional American pilot get hired over pilots who don't look the part, even with similar resumes and experience?

*I'm asking from the standpoint of a curious potential career changer. I'm not a bitter pilot trying to justify why I'm not employed by a major airline yet.
Every human interaction is subjective base mostly on how you look followed by reputation and lastly credentials. You will always find more fair haired golden boys in any desireable position. I have been discredited in a group because i did not look like a person they wanted to hear. Instead they turned to the guy who was taller and better dressed. How many female pilots look like Roseanne Barr? There is your answer.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
Every human interaction is subjective base mostly on how you look followed by reputation and lastly credentials. You will always find more fair haired golden boys in any desireable position. I have been discredited in a group because i did not look like a person they wanted to hear. Instead they turned to the guy who was taller and better dressed. How many female pilots look like Roseanne Barr? There is your answer.
As long as we're being judgmental in this thread, I doubt most people who look like Rosanne Barr or her male counterpart John Goodman could pass first class medical. Hence, there's a fair explanation why you don't see many pilots who look like Rosanne Barr or John Goodman.

As far as "golden boys in desirable positions," that varies by industry. For example, short and nerdy looking Mark Zuckerberg doesn't fit a "golden boy" stereotype and is in a very desirable position in tech. But, I didn't see any pilots who look like Mark Zuckerberg while walking around Hobby during my 4 hour layover.

Does being having a "golden boy" look help a pilot's career? And would looking like Mark Zuckerberg hurt a pilot's career? I'd rather learn that being short and nerdy looking hinders a pilot's career now than figuring it out in 10 years after I changed careers.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhounddog View Post
As long as we're being judgmental in this thread, I doubt most people who look like Rosanne Barr or her male counterpart John Goodman could pass first class medical. Hence, there's a fair explanation why you don't see many pilots who look like Rosanne Barr or John Goodman.
Have you met many senior widebody Captains?

The First Class Medical is not so difficult to pass. Though the sleep apnea screening did make it a bit more rigorous.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:45 PM
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Hypothesis: Race and gender have no bearing on ability to fly an airplane.

Expectation: Statistics will indicate that race and gender of airline pilots will not be statistically different from the general US population.

US Census demographics indicate that roughly 72% of the population is "White", 13% "Black", and 15% other. 49.3% is male, and 50.7% female.

If race and gender play no role in who becomes an airline pilot, we would expect 35% of the seats to be filled by white males, 37% by white females, 6% black males, 7% black females, 7% other males, and 8% other females.

Using the UA 2016 newhire data poor pilot posted, white males are over represented by more than double, black males are almost proportionally represented, other races are underrepresented by half, and only 1/6th of the expected number of women are being hired.


Of course this data does not really answer the hypothesis that race and gender do not predict flying ability, but given the enormous gulf between the general population and who is being hired, it is obvious that either gender does predict flying ability, or there are structural issues that deter women from beginning and completing flight training and continuing in the career to the point where they will be hired by a major airline.

"Structural issues" is "sexism" - both the overt kind amply demonstrated in this thread i.e. "all female pilots are bad pilots", and the covert sexism of expected or encouraged gender roles i.e. "girls play with dolls, not airplanes". Or perhaps a general impression that the flight deck is an environment where chauvinism and the hostile work environment that comes with it is still tolerated deters a significant number of women from joining the profession in the first place.



Anecdotally, my experience in the cockpit is similar. I can only recall one incident in my entire career where a pilot said something overtly racist. But denigrating women, as pilots or just generally, is more common than complaining about management, union reps, crew meals, layover hotels, pairings, AND politics, combined.
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