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Horizon cutting flights due to pilot shortage

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Horizon cutting flights due to pilot shortage

Old 08-01-2017, 11:08 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
I can only speak for the Q side but there's pretty much no reserve anywhere, and you will have about 12 days off a month. Every other day the company owns your soul as a junior pilot. No dropping. If you want the most control over your schedule you're gonna want to head to airline that has SAP line bidding, and unfortunately there arent many left.
For a few reasons, I have been looking at Horizon. However, I came across this info waaayyy back in these threads:

We have a four year seat lock, and currently an upgrade time around 2.5-3 years. We also have a pretty good idea on what Q400 schedules will look like in a few years when the jets start picking up longer, less fatiguing, better paying routes. The big problem about coming here right now is the seat lock. Let me explain with a hypothetical example:

You get hired and are number 350/350 on the Q400. Over the next year, 100 pilots senior to you quit, upgrade, etc. now you are 250/350 and are senior reserve/junior lineholder.

Then they buy 10 jets and park 10 Q400's (not exactly what's happening, but for the sake of simplicity). You are now 250/250, and Joe Pilot a year junior to you is 1/100 on the jet holding a line with weekends and more days off making more than you per month. Your relative seniority drops, or optimistically, it stagnates.

If you come here now your seniority will be like climbing a ladder that is losing rungs behind you. You'll eventually get to the top, but you'll be near the bottom pretty much until your there (that's a confusing metaphor, don't overthink it).

Make sense? You will magically be forever junior on the Q400 until your global seniority is high enough to upgrade. Also, none of this accounts for the fact those Q400 trips will be much worse than they are now. Purely from a seniority standpoint, you'd be kicking yourself for what you've put yourself through for years because you didn't want to commute to ORD for three months.

(I think Snacky spelled this out... nicely illustrated!)

So, given this was 7-8 months back, does anyone care to refute this in light of recent changes? I know there are a few optimists out there...
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:43 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Petethedog View Post
For a few reasons, I have been looking at Horizon. However, I came across this info waaayyy back in these threads:

We have a four year seat lock, and currently an upgrade time around 2.5-3 years. We also have a pretty good idea on what Q400 schedules will look like in a few years when the jets start picking up longer, less fatiguing, better paying routes. The big problem about coming here right now is the seat lock. Let me explain with a hypothetical example:

You get hired and are number 350/350 on the Q400. Over the next year, 100 pilots senior to you quit, upgrade, etc. now you are 250/350 and are senior reserve/junior lineholder.

Then they buy 10 jets and park 10 Q400's (not exactly what's happening, but for the sake of simplicity). You are now 250/250, and Joe Pilot a year junior to you is 1/100 on the jet holding a line with weekends and more days off making more than you per month. Your relative seniority drops, or optimistically, it stagnates.

If you come here now your seniority will be like climbing a ladder that is losing rungs behind you. You'll eventually get to the top, but you'll be near the bottom pretty much until your there (that's a confusing metaphor, don't overthink it).

Make sense? You will magically be forever junior on the Q400 until your global seniority is high enough to upgrade. Also, none of this accounts for the fact those Q400 trips will be much worse than they are now. Purely from a seniority standpoint, you'd be kicking yourself for what you've put yourself through for years because you didn't want to commute to ORD for three months.

(I think Snacky spelled this out... nicely illustrated!)

So, given this was 7-8 months back, does anyone care to refute this in light of recent changes? I know there are a few optimists out there...
All of this is dependent on them parking Qs which no one knows for sure if it will happen. If AAG could have it their way they wouldn't park any because they make so much money.

I also miscalculated earlier. The junior Q400 CA is now 11/15, the jet went down to 7/15.
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
All of this is dependent on them parking Qs which no one knows for sure if it will happen. If AAG could have it their way they wouldn't park any because they make so much money.

I also miscalculated earlier. The junior Q400 CA is now 11/15, the jet went down to 7/15.
Go to SkyWest where management is solid. Get your jet, get your upgrade and your PNW base. The few bucks less starting out wont matter when your a captain in 2.5 years.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:35 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Ispeakjive View Post
Go to SkyWest where management is solid. Get your jet, get your upgrade and your PNW base. The few bucks less starting out wont matter when your a captain in 2.5 years.
yeah but if you already have mil and/or 121/135 time, you can be a CA at QX in less than 2 years
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:43 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by SIUav8er View Post
yeah but if you already have mil and/or 121/135 time, you can be a CA at QX in less than 2 years
But it might not be in a shiny jet though! Oh the horror!
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:11 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Ispeakjive View Post
Go to SkyWest where management is solid. Get your jet, get your upgrade and your PNW base. The few bucks less starting out wont matter when your a captain in 2.5 years.
Go to skywest if you want to commute to reserve in detroit when you upgrade
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
Go to skywest if you want to commute to reserve in detroit when you upgrade
Not so much anymore.
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Old 10-06-2017, 03:08 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by word302 View Post
Not so much anymore.
Yeah, reserve time is minimal in the most junior bases and junior upgrades can hold MSP, ORD, and DTW. Most junior upgrades in the E175 are going to BOI.
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Old 10-06-2017, 03:18 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
Go to skywest if you want to commute to reserve in detroit when you upgrade
Snacky,

Yes. DTW is the most junior Captain base in the CRJ. But, we hire lots of people from all over the country. A lot of them come from the East coast and want to get back there. The most junior captain award is 1.5 years seniority. That's not a bad thing in this environment when you want turbine PIC in a hurry so you can move on. If I had been able to get that kind of experience when I was hired, I would have jump on it.

BTW, Newhires got West coast ERJ. (BOI, SAN, DEN). The most junior ERJ FO in SEA has 4 months online. PDX most junior ERJ FO 3 months.

Last edited by skwcrj; 10-06-2017 at 03:26 PM. Reason: added more info
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Old 10-06-2017, 04:14 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by skwcrj View Post
Snacky,

Yes. DTW is the most junior Captain base in the CRJ. But, we hire lots of people from all over the country. A lot of them come from the East coast and want to get back there. The most junior captain award is 1.5 years seniority. That's not a bad thing in this environment when you want turbine PIC in a hurry so you can move on. If I had been able to get that kind of experience when I was hired, I would have jump on it.

BTW, Newhires got West coast ERJ. (BOI, SAN, DEN). The most junior ERJ FO in SEA has 4 months online. PDX most junior ERJ FO 3 months.
If you have 0 time your QOL will be much better on the E-jet with a west coast base, however once you upgrade at OO you're going to be commuting to reserve in DTW which just isn't an option for a lot of people. A zero time pilot coming to Horizon will upgrade as soon as they hit 1000 121 (most likely) and can stay on the west coast instead of having to go back east at Skywest until they get hired by a major.
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