Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional > Horizon Air
Goal:  Alaska...fly anywhere but Horizon? >

Goal: Alaska...fly anywhere but Horizon?

Notices
Horizon Air Regional Airline

Goal: Alaska...fly anywhere but Horizon?

Old 01-25-2018, 02:25 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Default Goal: Alaska...fly anywhere but Horizon?

If a pilot sought a career with Alaska as their destination/career airline, is Horizon - as Alaska's wholly-owned carrier - the worst possible regional they could work for?

My theory is that the progressively-deepening pilot shortage is driving the major/legacy airlines to create "systems" in which they can manage the pilots (i.e., balance between regional & mainline) as they see fit to do as much cheap flying as possible, so - in flow/agreement scenarios with a wholly-owned regional - pilots who are part of the wholly-owned regional won't get to the mainline carrier as fast as they would by applying from outside the "system." Thoughts??

I have no Part 121 experience so I would love nothing more than for the folks who have done some turns to correct me if this is a bad/incorrect way of thinking.
fenix1 is offline  
Old 01-25-2018, 05:58 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
snackysmores's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Default

Originally Posted by fenix1 View Post
If a pilot sought a career with Alaska as their destination/career airline, is Horizon - as Alaska's wholly-owned carrier - the worst possible regional they could work for?

My theory is that the progressively-deepening pilot shortage is driving the major/legacy airlines to create "systems" in which they can manage the pilots (i.e., balance between regional & mainline) as they see fit to do as much cheap flying as possible, so - in flow/agreement scenarios with a wholly-owned regional - pilots who are part of the wholly-owned regional won't get to the mainline carrier as fast as they would by applying from outside the "system." Thoughts??

I have no Part 121 experience so I would love nothing more than for the folks who have done some turns to correct me if this is a bad/incorrect way of thinking.
We've been saying this for years. Alaska will only take a maximum of 30% Horizon pilots per year. They won't sabotage their regional feed. Since the Pathway program has not hired any horizon pilots yet we don't know long it will take, but a conservative guess would be at least 3-4 years of longevity before being eligible to move on.

It's better to be part of the 70% (Military/skywest) and skip the whole demeaning and degrading "surrender your attendance/disciplinary/training records" act they got going on ONLY for horizon pilots and no one else.
snackysmores is offline  
Old 01-25-2018, 06:36 PM
  #3  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 17
Default

FWIW, during my interview I asked whether or not a horizon pilot can apply to Alaska during the normal application window. Both the horizon and Alaska chief pilots said they saw no reason why not. So theoretically you could be part of that 70% as well.

True or not...may just come down to who you know to get your app pulled from the stack.
flyblo is offline  
Old 01-25-2018, 09:59 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
snackysmores's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Default

Yeah but let's be real, everyone knows they aren't going to call you. Alaska has the mentality that if you aren't willing to surrender your docs as a Horizon pilot you automatically are trying to hide something.
snackysmores is offline  
Old 01-25-2018, 11:08 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 203
Default

The career pathway program is too new. We have no idea what effect it will have on hiring habits at Alaska.

One could imagine a situation in which the program increased applications at QX, creating a surplus of bodies. It could also go the other way. We just have no idea.
Griever is offline  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:13 AM
  #6  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Default

If you want to work for Alaska DO NOT go to Horizon. There has been a traditional corporate philosophy of not using "robbing" Horizon pilots for Alaska that goes back almost 30 years.

Your best bet...Sky West or any other regional.
Packrat is offline  
Old 01-26-2018, 11:11 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
snackysmores's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Default

Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate View Post
Honest question...I have seen you bring up the topic of turning over your records to Alaska as being a biiiig problem in your eyes. Why is that?
I don't have a specific problem with the act itself, other than the fact that only Horizon pilots are subjected to this treatment.

A Horizon pilot and Skywest pilot (or from anywhere else to be fair) show up to interview on the same day. Both are offered CJOs. The Skywest pilot gets an immediate class date and the red carpet rolled out for him, while the Horizon pilot must surrender all records and be deemed worthy in order to continue. The Skywest pilot is in class 2 weeks later building seniority while the horizon pilot has to sit in a pool for almost a year before being allowed to start.
snackysmores is offline  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:31 PM
  #8  
Works Every Weekend
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
Default

Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
A Horizon pilot and Skywest pilot (or from anywhere else to be fair) show up to interview on the same day. Both are offered CJOs. The Skywest pilot gets an immediate class date and the red carpet rolled out for him, while the Horizon pilot must surrender all records and be deemed worthy in order to continue. The Skywest pilot is in class 2 weeks later building seniority while the horizon pilot has to sit in a pool for almost a year before being allowed to start.
This is the part that management still fails to understand.


With that said, here's some info I have about the pathways program... So far there have been quite a few people interview for it, and the success rate is over 90%. No idea when those people start going to class, how senior they are, or what people did to get rejected. I suppose more info will become available as things progress. My opinion thus far is that it's probably a good opportunity for those senior enough to be toward the top of the pool, but for a new hire I wouldn't call it a big advantage. By the time a new hire was senior enough to see any impact, I'm sure this program will have been modified to be something else completely.
pete2800 is offline  
Old 01-27-2018, 12:06 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Default Thank you

I appreciate all who replied to offer their insight & perspective. Frankly, it's beginning to feel like these programs to move pilots from the regional to the mainline are nothing more than opium for the masses & purely a recruiting tool without a lot of gumption behind them in reality... (All WO regional/mainline pairings, not just QX to AS)
fenix1 is offline  
Old 01-27-2018, 12:36 AM
  #10  
Line Holder
 
BigfatQ's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 74
Default

If AS is hiring 400 this year and 30% is gonna be horizon, that's 120. And at 740 pilots that's 16% of our pilot group. Doesn't sound like peanuts to me
BigfatQ is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
eskimopilot
Alaska
7759
02-09-2024 04:13 PM
smstoller
Career Questions
4
04-30-2012 06:55 PM
Splanky
Regional
47
01-28-2011 07:59 AM
Sir James
Major
1
07-17-2005 08:47 PM
WatchThis!
Major
0
07-10-2005 03:55 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices