Speechless....making that comment makes any explanation to you complete waste of time, at best a “D” in history class

My turn to be speechless. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe i should have worded it what are your concerns? Is that sensitive enough for you? Maybe your superior history knowledge is enough to turn down something that every other major requires of similar programs?

#1 it’s not a true flow throw
#2 Someone that’s been here 10 yrs vs. a new hire has a lot more history that AS can use against them, hence what if they called in fatigued 5 times a year and in doing so drove the company to make safer scheduling practices for those that come behind them, yet they have this used against them. This is one of many other examples that I’m not going into further.
#3 It’s not within our contract

I get a newbie seeing this as awesome, but in all honesty there is more inside the covers of this book with the pretty cover.

Hope that helps

You sound bitter friend. I was once bitter. 11 years at a dying regional. Never upgraded. I got mad too, made some small mistake I wouldn't want to be open knowledge trying to get a fresh start at another company. I get it. By the time I could possibly realistically get a class date at Alaska the way things seem to be going, I'll be an old man.

Best thing I ever did was get a fresh start, change my perspective. Cleared my head, changed my life. It worked for me. I'm prepared tio retire here.

Call it whatever you like, doesn't matter to me. Once you have your number you're only waiting for a class no different then similar programs at the United and Delta. Neither is their need to have access to your entire employee file any different then similar programs at United and Delta. So i don't understand the reason for waiting , it will all be known anyway, i would want to know sooner then later personally...

Anyway I don't want to argue with you, I was only curious as to the reason handing over records was an issue with snackysmores.

I don't believe the other carriers can turn your entire employment records over to another airline like Alaska can with impunity.

Hypothetically you could get hired at Alaska and then Delta could call you a year later. Alaska then gives Delta your entire record including sick/fatigue/discipline w/e. Delta then says thanks but no thanks, and you're stuck at Alaska.

that's illegal.

Agreed. I believe there is a law that limits what can be shared, and what MUST be shared. Pretty sure the acronym is PRIA.

Here is the link to the PRIA and FOIA data that can be disclosed: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/...OIA_and_PA.pdf

Since Alaska Air Group owns both AS and QX, I am sure that the lawyers have gone over the information that is legal to share between the two carriers.

Not when you sign a release of liability waiver allowing Alaska to do just that.


"I also hereby RELEASE both Horizon and Alaska and all of their respective affiliates, parent
corporations, related entities, officers, directors, agents, employees, insurers, and all persons acting
on their behalf from any and all claims and liabilities of any nature (including costs and attorneys’
fees) arising from the furnishing, disclosure, receipt, and use of such information and release of
employment records.

I acknowledge and understand that the information used, disclosed, and received under this
Authorization may be subject to redisclosure and not be protected by federal or state privacy laws
and I am waiving my rights under such laws related to the information used, disclosed, and/or
received under this Authorization."


If Alaska decided to release your records, even inadvertently or accidentally to another carrier, you cannot sue them. "Oopsies" is covered under this.
Notice how this specific release of liability section does not mention "Only to Alaska" anywhere. "Release of employment records" ...to who? Doesn't specify. AAG legal can easily spin this into a "That's not how we interpret it" if they are challenged in court.

Will Alaska try and screw you over if you get a 737 type and try to bail? I don't know, but with their shady and backstabbing Angle Lake corporate culture I wouldn't put it above them.

Bitter? Thanks for the diagnosis Dr.? but I’m far from it I’m pretty set just prefer to call BS when I see it I’m outta here the misinformation here gives me some great laughs though :) flame on.

Originally Posted by Mea25000
2019: 120
2020: 300
2021: 300
:D

I doubt it, Alaska isn't growing and only retiring around 150 over the next 3 years

Take about a quarter of that total number and if things go well we might hire that many.

400 when you reverse engineer the chief pilots math. Thats why I said its funny about the forecast being 720. :D

This seems like a less-than-certain opportunity for people to get their foot in the door at a 3rd/4th tier airline. What am I missing here?

Nothing, you nailed it. At best, the program is a semi-OK backup plan if you don't get hired by FedEx, Southwest, Delta, or the other major airline of your choice. I think a lot of the guys and gals in the program are going to jump ship as soon as they get a better job offer, be it Alaska or someone else.

Pilots are already required via PRIA to allow transfer of records, at least the ones that matter. This isn’t unique just over at Horizon Air. So, if sick days, or disciplinary details were also transfered, due signing the Alaska papers, who cares? Wouldn’t a pilot have already been honest about that in an interview,,, or at least not try to cover it up by relying on records being confidential?

The problem I have is that those records contain (or allow someone to easily infer) information Alaska isn't legally allowed to have access to for a job interview. If you read through the records release we're required to sign, it specifically mentions "Any other records which contain necessary and relevant information for the Pathways
Program", which basically allows Alaska to look at whatever records they feel like.

Normally, employers are legally prohibited from asking about things like marital status, kids, disabilities, etc... at an interview, but the records we're required to sign over to Alaska would contain some of that information, or would make it pretty easy to figure out.

If the pathways thing was an actual flow agreement, it wouldn't be as big of an issue, but the current setup of the program makes it distinctly possible that Alaska could look at those records, make an illegal hiring decision, and as long as they weren't stupid enough to put something like "We didn't hire Bob because he's gay" in writing, they'd get away with it under the guise of claiming something to the effect of the person "wasn't a good fit."

"If you have nothing to hide, then you won't mind us taking a look right?'

Pretty far fetched that they're looking discriminate against gay, or married, or parents, who work for QX.

They probably just want to look at your attendance records.

attendance records, discipline records, and all irregularity / safety reports.

I spent nearly six years on reserve. There were several years in there where Horizon was desperately short-staffed. Reserves would be used right up to their legal limits... every day. I remember being assigned to PM airport reserve, getting to the airport, and seeing a 4-day trip on my line with a 12:30 departure.

Due to the abusive schedules, I'd call in fatigued five or six times a year. Some of my sick calls were also caused by fatigue. I'm sure the company already knows about this. I'm not going to apologize for making a safety-related decision (fatigue call), but I'm not sure I want these disclosed thorough the Pathways program.

Snacky has explained the problems with the Pathways program much more clearly than I can. One final note: The Pathways program is NOT a flow-through, and there is no flow back. If you get fired or furloughed from Alaska, then you're not a Horizon pilot again... you're an unemployed Alaska pilot.

ASAP is confidential. Even from your current employer, they would have to violate an MOU with the FAA to break that.

I did essentially all of my safety reporting via ASAP (a few to CYA, but most to help improve things). Several reasons...

1. Make sure the fed sees it.
2. Confidentiality.
3. Ease of use, that was the system I was familiar with.

The company requires us to file a fatigue report for any fatigue call. I always file an ASAP report as well. This alerts the ASAP committee and the FAA to any scheduling practices or irregular operations that might contribute to fatigue.

Correct, ASAP is confidential. Irregularity/safety reports are what they're after.

Over in the Alaska Hiring sub-thread I see there is some recent hiring. Any QX Pathway pilots in the new bunch?

Latest pathway list shows 5 QX pilots (1 alternate) moving over in December.