TyWebb

TOWP I can understand. If a person isn't comfortable flying right now due to various reasons, then it is a good option. Reduced credit I don't completely understand.. the grant money is to pay employees till recovery so the unemployment rate doesn't go sky high (more than it is already) and the markets don't tank (again, more than is has or could already).


So bidding min gets them off the hook for where that money is allocated to go. If that money isn't enough and this thing last longer than the government predicts, then I'm sure we all will see another round or two of grants. The government is already in bed with controlling the unemployment rate, they aren't going to hop out and let the sky fall. I do have sympathy for the stress that management is going through but either fire me or give me the agreed upon pay. I am almost 100% positive most of our pay at min credit will yield me less than unemployment... however, does that outweigh benefits and keeping seniority? That's personal to everyone, but I'm sorry, I won't be feel guilty for not bidding min credit.


Sorry for the rants ladies and gents

BigfatQ

What agreed upon pay do you mean? Min guarantee was agreed upon. If you want to bid the min credit window you can but you are not obligated to do so.

Yes people might get more than normal on unemployment for up to 4 months but I would rather have a job than depend on that any time. The reason this is so high is it's supposed to be a Stimulus program the way I understand it.. but I would not complain about that because that money is coming out of the same pot as the one that is keeping our airlines afloat

TyWebb

I was a little incoherent with my point. Simply put, this stimulus/grant is to keep the pay to employees. I do not like the pressure, at the current time over 9 different emails from management, to please bid for min credit when this money has been earmarked by the government to keep income levels the same.

trc8301

That money may potentially has to last a while. Still have to balance the budget to make it work for the long term just in case. Even with the money I can only imagine how much we are losing every day. Reduced credit helps ensure they can continue to keep everyone after the Sept. 30th date.

TyWebb

That's a complete misunderstanding... it isn't the same pot of money. Can the airlines, not just Alaska, use unearned grant money for other uses? Not sure but I'm willing to bet they will try.

The difference in the pots of money is the payroll is from grants, and the other is a loan for operations. The latter the gov will get a equity share till the loan is paid back. It's not the same pot but it is being portrayed, or at least not being pitched correctly, as such. But the good news, if anyone is paying attention to the markets, this may be on the healthy recovery before we test that Sep. 30th date.

I am trying to find the CNBC article that laid out the differences in money but the URL changed for some reason. Once I do, I'll post it. In the meantime, if I am wrong or the government changed the rules somehow without me paying attention one day, then feel free to correct me.
This isn't the article I originally saw but it will paint the picture between the 'pots' of money. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/coro...or-grants.html

9mikemike

The grant is measured by last years payroll not current payroll. Horizon Air submitted last years payroll which likely is smaller than current. They will get a percentage of last years payroll.....So they are short for this year...

05Duramax

At Republic management told us they estimate if every airline they believe will ask for grant money for payroll takes it the total payroll would be in the neighborhood of 40 billion, the cap of the grant is 25 billion. In other words it will cover roughly 60% of airlines payroll until Sept 30th. They will still need to find ways to save money.

TyWebb

The Treasury has said that airlines will be awarded payroll support in an amount equal to what they paid their employees from April to September last year - https://www.law360.com/articles/1260...covid-19-funds

If it's true what Republic is telling you all then they must have 40% more labor cost then last year. I don't want to spend the time digging into quarterly filings to see if that's true.
As far as AAG I doubt we are 40% more but I can give them the benefit of the doubt. What I can tell by just Horizon's part of the pie, 150 new FO's hired from April to current but those should be included in the figures already and don't count any retirements or pilots that have moved on to other airlines. Most of which would be CA's which would offset new hire costs.

Edit: this is just pilot numbers not any additions to management, FA's, ramp personnel, etc.

TyWebb

Yes exactly 50% since April to September equals half the year. Are we on the same page? seems so, but you make it seem the company is getting pennies on the dollar.

9mikemike

Maybe I misread the part about how the qualifying dollar figure is vetted. I thought it said that April through September of 2019. I have no idea whether Horizon Air has a larger payroll now than last year. Different company, different accounting practices etc... At Alaska Airlines we have a larger payroll for April through September 2020. We will get a percentage of last years payroll(04/19-10/19)and it will be quite a bit less than is required for this years payroll(04/20-10-20).....