Phteven

There have been a lot of rumors floating around Horizon lately and as always, the truth lies somewhere between “we’re ****ed” and “this is the best thing that could happen to us” so here’s a new thread where we can hopefully consolidate information and keep people interested in working here appraised of what is going on around here.

A little background:

Over the past couple years Horizon has seen all of the Alaska regional jet flying go to Skywest. It started with the transfer of the CRJ700’s to them, then last year it was the announcement that Skywest will be flying 7 E175’s for Alaska, then AAG announced they will end the CRJ program and replace those 8 airplanes with an additional 8 E175’s also flown by Skywest.

A few weeks ago, we received an email from Horizon management saying we have an “opportunity to compete” for 30 more E175’s (over and above those 15 already slated to be flown by SKW). The email and the discussions between the company and management have since been regarding how we can improve our productivity and “get our costs more in line with the industry.” That is the carrot. The stick is that we will be losing 20 Q400’s (40% of our fleet) in 2017-2018, so the idea is that we need to act now and come up with a strategy for how we as a company will secure this flying so it doesn’t also get farmed out to Skywest.

As of last week, our union is meeting with management to discuss the specifics of what that will entail. We do not know anything for sure yet, but the items currently on the table that the company has specifically said they will be seeking are:
- Moving to a more efficient scheduling model. Not necessarily PBS, but 99% likely it will be PBS.
- Flexibility with our reserve rules. No fixed 14-hour blocks like we currently have, rather an assigned reserve start time the day prior.
- A concession to our current pay structure. Our CBA currently states we will fly a 76-seat jet at a 10% greater margin than our current Q400 rate and the company wants to remove that and have us fly the jet at the same rate as the Q400.

That is not an exhaustive list, rather the only things I can actually source from management as items they want to negotiate. The timeline we were given is that the company wants to have a TA by the end of the year. Whether an amendment to our contract is necessary or not (it isn’t), that will pretty much be the time the determination needs to be made on whether the flying comes here or not because they want to send the first 8 of these 30 into service in early 2017. That means proving runs by the end of 2016 so there would be a lot of infrastructure to build in the months leading up to that.

For the potential new-hires:

In a different thread, someone was discouraging pilots from coming to Horizon saying that it will send a clear message to management that now is not the time to ask for concessions. While I agree that is true, I think with the right info, you guys can make that decision for yourselves. To add to that though, here’s what you can expect if you choose Horizon over Skywest or Compass:
- Unless you have 10-15+ years of seniority, you won’t fly the jet as a captain here – you will fly the Q400. We have close to 200 pre-9/11 captains on the seniority list, many who will probably retire here and are chomping at the bit to get back into a jet, so it is not going to happen for you anytime soon, if ever.
- The new routes the Q400 will be flying come 2018ish are limited to Washington, southern BC, Idaho, Oregon, and western Montana. It will have a handful of routes over an hour, but most of them will be 30-45 minutes. You will fly several legs a day and make less than the guy who flies two legs a day in the E175.
- If you are thinking about coming here for the MFR or GEG bases - don't. They are almost certainly going to close. BOI will probably be around for longer but who knows, a lot will be changing in the next few years.
- Now this is just my opinion, but compared to Skywest or Compass, on balance I think our upgrade times will be similar in the years to come, our pay will be the same per hour but you will make less than them flying the Q400 (block pay problem on short legs, see above), you will pay your own LTD here so factor that into hourly pay (it’s a lot, for a 1st year FO it's about $1,200). You'll also fork out somewhere around $700-800 for uniforms (not sure if that is similar at CPZ and SKW).

I don’t want to feed the rumor mill, I just get information out to the 1500.1 hour guys looking for regionals to work for the PNW and get them up to speed on what is going on here. If I were you, I would not come here. Best-case scenario: the company gets new flying and you maybe spend a year in the right seat of the jet before upgrading to the Q400. Worst-case scenario: you get furloughed or, in a slightly better case, never see any substantial movement upwards on the seniority list because there will be no replacing for attrition. If you REALLY want to work for Horizon, please at least do yourself the favor of waiting to see what happens here. If Horizon doesn’t get the flying and is destined to shrink – you have your answer. If they DO get the flying, then at least you will have real information to make a decision on.

Riverside

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ers-email.html

Phteven

That thread started immediately after the email was released and there has been a lot more clarification about what was discussed there since. While many of us here are rightfully upset about what is going on, I started a new thread about this to get what info we know out there as new info comes in since this whole situation is not just about an email from the union.

FirstClass

Keep in mind if you shrink your costs automatically increase as you slice off the cheap labor at the bottom in favor of the more expensive labor at the top. There is nothing you can do to help the company. You are going to shrink no different than any other regional. Your fate will be the same as republics, as will all of ours. If they wish to decrease labor costs, the solution is simpe- grow. This brings down the overall labor cost. But it's short lived. You will have to eventually shrink. Tell your management their growth plans are none of your business, it's all up to them to deal with.

alaskadrifter

What does your crystal ball say about the ANC base?

pete2800

It's as stable as anything else.

amcnd

Also be carfull of taking concessions without promised growth.... Adding the E175 to the certificate is a huge cost. And could never happen, but the concessions could...

Phteven

I have heard that long-term they want to expand state of Alaska flying but are trying to figure that out logistically. The idea being that as Alaska parks the -400's that Horizon would do more of the regional flying up there that Alaska has been doing, but the Q400 has nowhere near the cargo capacity necessary to serve a lot of those markets so...we'll see.

I would bet that ANC either stays the same or grows, but who really knows.

Phteven

What they are telling us right now is that there will be a snapback on any changes to the contract if we "do not get the 30 jets being discussed."

...so take that for what it's worth.

Personally, I think it is ridiculous that we are having this discussion. What's even more insane is there are people here ready to roll over and give in. Nonetheless, over 200 pilots here were hired in 2014-2015 so far, safe to say they won't give the shirt off their backs for a jet since they could have easily gone next door to fly one (and certainly still can).

Check Complete

Kinda right out of the playbook, you will be getting the planes, concessions or not. They aren't making a nearly billion dollar bid on aircraft contingent on a few bucks an hour of pilot pay.

IMHO