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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

Old 01-16-2017, 08:11 AM
  #991  
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Originally Posted by gazoo34 View Post
The bonus wasn't negotiated with the union and therefore violates the agreed upon pay scale the union negotiated (I presume). This has happened at numerous regionals. It is a way for companies to temporarily increase first year pay and erode the negotiating power of the pilot group. This is how the regionals stay alive AND IT IS WRONG! The regional airline construct has taken away the bargaining power of pilots and until new pilots realize that going to a regional for min wage pay hurts them in the long run pilots will continue to get abused. Boys and girls a bonus is temporary and doesn't make up for cold calls and junior manning on days off. It doesn't make up for possibly getting a flight violation at a min wage job which may prevent you from getting your dream job. DONT GO TO A REGIONAL UNTIL FIRST YEAR PAY IS ABOVE $45 and there is a guaranteed flow to a major. It will happen in the next two years. Horizon like all other regionals need to die a slow painful agonizing death or pay pilots equal to the responsibility of having 79 lives in the literally "palm of their hands."

Thanks for info, I think I gotcha. Basically it's a way for the regionals to offer "more" pay without having to commit to a higher pay scale for the long haul and without having to negotiate the contract with the unions. Does that really make it illegal or just unethical?

To my follow-on question, is there anything that prevents one from just taking the bonus and never showing up? Is that similarly unethical? Has any one ops tested this? Just curious on folk's thoughts.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:54 AM
  #992  
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Will they offer E175 for new hires soon or will they be filled with transfers?
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:26 AM
  #993  
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Originally Posted by Jay1122 View Post
Thanks for info, I think I gotcha. Basically it's a way for the regionals to offer "more" pay without having to commit to a higher pay scale for the long haul and without having to negotiate the contract with the unions. Does that really make it illegal or just unethical?

To my follow-on question, is there anything that prevents one from just taking the bonus and never showing up? Is that similarly unethical? Has any one ops tested this? Just curious on folk's thoughts.
Compensation for the pilot group must be in accordance with our collective bargaining agreement. When we negotiated this contract barely one year ago, our union made attempts to address the inadequate new hire compensation and prevent these hiring problems from occurring in the first place. They were basically ignored by the company.

NOW, when the company is faced with hiring problems due to their lack of foresight, rather than taking the time to negotiate changes with the union, they just opt to give out a bonus in clear violation of our CBA. I'm sure the company did this after extensive consultation with their legal team, and it remains to be seen if it is even legal. That finding will take time, and the company knows it. They will continue to hand out the bonus while it is debated in court if that is where it ends up.

The "loophole" that they are using with these bonuses is that they are giving them out to pilots that don't yet work here, and as such may not yet be covered by our CBA. I'm told they essentially hand you the bonus check before hading you your badge saying you now work for Horizon Air.

Again, our union tried to build increased pay for new hires into our contract but was essentially told to shove it. This new contract was shoved down our throats amid threats to be downsized and have our flying given away to Skywest, which they've done anyway. People were worried about their jobs, so they voted yes to a contract that was supposed to be everything we needed to compete for the next 8 years. Barely six months later we were asked to vote on an amendment that gave all of us a paltry $.05/hour per diem increase (yes, a nickel an hour, you can't make this stuff up) and gave the company COMPLETE CONTROL over pay for year 1&2 (Maybe year 1-3, can't remember) first officer pay, so that they could raise or lower it as they saw fit without input from the union, and they wondered why we said no. Now they do this.

My understanding is that the bonus CAN'T be tied to any kind of a contract, as there would be no question that it violates the CBA. Bottom line is this: THE COMPANY SCREWED UP with this last contract, and they know it. It hasn't even really taken effect yet and the company already wants to change it. When we denied their garbage proposal that strips us of our bargaining power, they just violate it. Is that who you really want to work for?

It's also just flat out wrong for a year 1 FO that is already here to be paid $10k less than one of you guys that hasn't yet learned what it's like to work a 12 hour day, flying six legs in four or five different airplanes full of MEL'd equipment without ever having a break long enough to use a proper bathroom, eat a meal or wash your hands with running water. Not to say that all trips are like that, but they do happen, and they are happening more and more as the staffing problems get worse.

Last edited by WSPLT; 01-16-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:34 AM
  #994  
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Originally Posted by Purpleanga View Post
Will they offer E175 for new hires soon or will they be filled with transfers?
Someone answered your question the first time. Go back a few pages and do a little reading...
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:42 AM
  #995  
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Originally Posted by Jay1122 View Post
Thanks for info, I think I gotcha. Basically it's a way for the regionals to offer "more" pay without having to commit to a higher pay scale for the long haul and without having to negotiate the contract with the unions. Does that really make it illegal or just unethical?

To my follow-on question, is there anything that prevents one from just taking the bonus and never showing up? Is that similarly unethical? Has any one ops tested this? Just curious on folk's thoughts.
If you bail within the first or second week they will put a stop order on the money
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:06 AM
  #996  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
If you bail within the first or second week they will put a stop order on the money
The company is banking on you being more honest and ethical than they are, that you'll actually honor your agreement and act in good faith, rather than try to find ways to work around it when it no longer suits your needs. What a concept. Do as I say, not as I do!
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:44 AM
  #997  
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Originally Posted by Jay1122 View Post
Thanks for info, I think I gotcha. Basically it's a way for the regionals to offer "more" pay without having to commit to a higher pay scale for the long haul and without having to negotiate the contract with the unions. Does that really make it illegal or just unethical?

To my follow-on question, is there anything that prevents one from just taking the bonus and never showing up? Is that similarly unethical? Has any one ops tested this? Just curious on folk's thoughts.
Originally Posted by Jay1122
@Griever, can you fill me in on the illegality of offering this bonus? Thanks!
I think others have touched on this, above. I may have called it illegal, which you can take for hyperbole if you wish, but if a guy can be certain of anything, it is that this will have a cease and desist order issued while the courts listen to each side of the case. Then, in within a year they will give a ruling declaring this a violation of the law.

The contextual info surrounding whether this is legal or not is all a judge will need to decide if this is illegal. When they subpoena the bargaining notes from our 2016 contract negotiations and see that this was brought up then, when they hear deposition from some of the new hires that accepted this bonus, when they use analogous thought to rationalize how this could be applied in other cases of contract law, I don't believe the judge will rule in QX's favor on this.

The only question is how there will be remedy applied.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:41 PM
  #998  
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Thanks for the info guys, I think I'll take a pass on Horizon for now.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:44 PM
  #999  
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I would really like to see what would happen if a pilot went to Horizon started training, waited for the check to clear and quit? Does anyone know if you sign a contract after they hand you the check?
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:51 PM
  #1000  
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Originally Posted by WSPLT View Post
It's also just flat out wrong for a year 1 FO that is already here to be paid $10k less than one of you guys that hasn't yet learned what it's like to work a 12 hour day, flying six legs in four or five different airplanes full of MEL'd equipment without ever having a break long enough to use a proper bathroom, eat a meal or wash your hands with running water. Not to say that all trips are like that, but they do happen, and they are happening more and more as the staffing problems get worse.
Sounds really rough, one day I'll learn about that stuff. Thanks for the reply, good info.
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