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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

Old 04-10-2017, 03:28 PM
  #1511  
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I keep thinking I've seen the height of QX management shenanigans, but I am again proven wrong. No dog in this fight but I hope you call their bluff and let management eat cake. This is beyond out of touch with the times.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:30 PM
  #1512  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
Not yet, we will know by the end of this week if they carry out their threat.
Wow. I guess we wait then. That's ridiculous that it's even an option
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:10 PM
  #1513  
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Communication sent today follows:

The Background…

As you know, the 2016 CBA contained cost concessions from you, the pilots, which were sought by management and reluctantly agreed to by the union. The intent of these cost concessions in 2016, from the outset, was to guarantee that Horizon could compete with other regional airlines on cost and therefore earn the right to fly Air Group’s forthcoming E-175 deliveries. Of course, the ink on the 2016 CBA was barely dry before Air Group shifted additional E-175 deliveries to SkyWest, a decision which seriously undermined the basis for agreeing to the 2016 CBA in the first place. More to the point, the 2016 CBA reduced compensation to pilots in the middle of a deep and sustained pilot shortage, a bizarre and mistimed step which sat in direct contrast to contract changes at other regional airlines which have consistently improved pilot compensation to attract and retain pilots.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:11 PM
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Attempts to Fix the Problem…

Given the background and our “burned fingers” from the 2016 CBA, we came to the table last October reluctantly, but with an open mind to addressing the company’s needs and in the spirit of goodwill and cooperation. We believed then, as we believe now, that Horizon’s way forward requires well-intended, good-faith cooperation between management and employees. As you know, we conducted several negotiations with the company in late 2016. During those negotiations, we adhered to several key principles. Crucially, we believed that any changes to overall pilot compensation – including bonuses and wage changes – would need to reflect the improvements to pilot compensation occurring throughout our industry. Anything less, we believed, would prevent Horizon from effectively recruiting and retaining pilots, hobbling the operation and creating a serious risk for Air Group’s passenger network, while also jeopardizing the trust which investors have placed in both Horizon and Air Group as a whole. Horizon has fallen behind in pilot pay; this deficit is directly responsible for the company’s difficulty in attracting pilots. Your EXCO even invited the company to participate in a joint benchmarking analysis, which would have allowed the parties to cooperatively assess wage issues and work collaboratively toward essential changes. Unfortunately, in the middle of these negotiations, and without accepting our offer of collaborative benchmarking, the company decided to break off negotiations and unilaterally offer hiring bonuses to new hire pilots. In response, the union filed a lawsuit against the company to stop these bonuses and force the company to adopt a good-faith effort to resolve the situation at the negotiating table. That dispute remains open and has not yet been resolved.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:13 PM
  #1515  
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And Now to the Present…

In this past week’s negotiating session, the company opened with an overt threat. Comply with the company’s demands by the end of the week, we were told, or impending E-175 deliveries would be deferred and/or delivered to SkyWest. Although we have no way of knowing whether the company intended to make good on this threat, or indeed whether such deferrals had already been initiated, we found ourselves in an eerily-familiar position. Once again, the company chose to issue threats and ultimatums while holding us responsible for the long-term fate of the company and conveniently disregarding the 2016 concessions which already secured the delivery of E-175 aircraft – or at least, should have secured those aircraft. Once again, the company paid lip-service to “cooperation” while putting a metaphorical gun to our heads and demanding your subservience.

As the negotiation progressed, your union EXCO made substantial, multi-million dollar movements toward the company position. The company countered with tiny, infinitesimal movements. This negotiation, like all prior negotiations, was framed as a function of cost and nothing more. Although we viewed that position as short-sighted and ill-timed in the context of the current pilot shortage, we knew – with regret – that current Horizon management does not and will not understand the need to be competitive in the market for pilots. And so, after several passes, we eventually passed to the company our Last, Best, Final Offer (LBFO), which agreed to the company’s proposed new FO scale and gave the company the ability to offer adjustable new-hire bonus payments within defined parameters. In effect, we met the company’s cost parameters and gave the company mechanisms to sponsor pilot development and offer flexible new hire bonuses. Significantly, we affirmed in our proposal that all such new hire bonus payments would include any and all payments to new hires granted as a condition of employment, up to and including tuition reimbursements and other costs. Make no mistake, we gave the company a proposal which met their stated requirements.

In a bizarre twist, the company rejected our proposal. In a last-minute counterproposal, the company wanted the basic elements of our LBFO, but without any restriction on their ability to offer new hire bonus payments. This was odd, to say the least. We had already agreed with the company on restraints to these bonus payments…so why the last minute change of terms? As we soon learned, by their actions and subsequent comments, the company was never intending to comply with CBA limits on new hire bonus payments, even though the company proposed such limits in their own proposals to us. We learned, in the end, that the company planned to secure the ability to offer new hire bonuses within the CBA, while also offering bonus payments outside the CBA, in effect compounding the value of bonus payments and negating and fully compromising the negotiated limits on such payments. This is why the company never intended to collaboratively benchmark compensation with us; in doing so, they would have revealed their true intentions.

Obviously, this new information was a game-changer which stepped outside the bounds of normal, if heated, labor negotiations. This new information represented a complete deception from the company, going back to October of 2016, if not earlier. From that time forward, the company has withheld material information and kept us in the dark about their plans to recruit new hire pilots, and negotiated in bad faith with the intent of securing their individual interests to the detriment of acceptable ethics. There are two equally troubling elements to this. First, the company’s intent to circumvent our CBA represents a willingness to “bust” the union and limit our capacity to bargain for pilot wages and work rules by shifting compensation to opaque pre-employment contracts set outside the confines of the Railway Labor Act. Second, certain known members of Horizon’s executive team are conducting themselves dishonorably, misrepresenting key facts and engaging in outright deception. We view these as serious and overriding offenses which run directly counter to the bedrock principles of Air Group as well as the spirit of cooperation and goodwill. Let us be perfectly clear on this point: we negotiated in good faith, shared the basis of our proposals, met the company’s cost targets, and have been loyal employees and trustworthy partners looking for real solutions in the spirit of cooperation.

...A little more rah-rah follows, but you get the point.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:34 PM
  #1516  
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So no proposal? What Next..??
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:40 PM
  #1517  
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Originally Posted by amcnd View Post
So no proposal? What Next..??
Sounds like air group isn't playing nicely, is willing to give planes to OO but not QX, and do whatever they see fit to recruit pilots instead of what QX sees. Correct me if I'm wrong (not sarcasm)
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:11 PM
  #1518  
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Originally Posted by LAX2MSP View Post
Sounds like air group isn't playing nicely, is willing to give planes to OO but not QX, and do whatever they see fit to recruit pilots instead of what QX sees. Correct me if I'm wrong (not sarcasm)
It's always been like that, in varying degrees.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:48 PM
  #1519  
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Originally Posted by LAX2MSP View Post
Sounds like air group isn't playing nicely, is willing to give planes to OO but not QX, and do whatever they see fit to recruit pilots instead of what QX sees. Correct me if I'm wrong (not sarcasm)
You're pretty much dead-on.

The other thing that makes this infuriating is that the concessions QX pilots and FA's took to get E175's are all triggered soon as the first jet goes into revenue service (probably next month), so it looks like there's a chance that management could put the first jet into service, get their concessions, and then give the remaining airplanes to Skywest.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:59 PM
  #1520  
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Originally Posted by Freelindy View Post
And Now to the Present…

In this past week’s negotiating session, the company opened with an overt threat. Comply with the company’s demands by the end of the week, we were told, or impending E-175 deliveries would be deferred and/or delivered to SkyWest. Although we have no way of knowing whether the company intended to make good on this threat, or indeed whether such deferrals had already been initiated, we found ourselves in an eerily-familiar position. Once again, the company chose to issue threats and ultimatums while holding us responsible for the long-term fate of the company and conveniently disregarding the 2016 concessions which already secured the delivery of E-175 aircraft – or at least, should have secured those aircraft. Once again, the company paid lip-service to “cooperation” while putting a metaphorical gun to our heads and demanding your subservience.

As the negotiation progressed, your union EXCO made substantial, multi-million dollar movements toward the company position. The company countered with tiny, infinitesimal movements. This negotiation, like all prior negotiations, was framed as a function of cost and nothing more. Although we viewed that position as short-sighted and ill-timed in the context of the current pilot shortage, we knew – with regret – that current Horizon management does not and will not understand the need to be competitive in the market for pilots. And so, after several passes, we eventually passed to the company our Last, Best, Final Offer (LBFO), which agreed to the company’s proposed new FO scale and gave the company the ability to offer adjustable new-hire bonus payments within defined parameters. In effect, we met the company’s cost parameters and gave the company mechanisms to sponsor pilot development and offer flexible new hire bonuses. Significantly, we affirmed in our proposal that all such new hire bonus payments would include any and all payments to new hires granted as a condition of employment, up to and including tuition reimbursements and other costs. Make no mistake, we gave the company a proposal which met their stated requirements.

In a bizarre twist, the company rejected our proposal. In a last-minute counterproposal, the company wanted the basic elements of our LBFO, but without any restriction on their ability to offer new hire bonus payments. This was odd, to say the least. We had already agreed with the company on restraints to these bonus payments…so why the last minute change of terms? As we soon learned, by their actions and subsequent comments, the company was never intending to comply with CBA limits on new hire bonus payments, even though the company proposed such limits in their own proposals to us. We learned, in the end, that the company planned to secure the ability to offer new hire bonuses within the CBA, while also offering bonus payments outside the CBA, in effect compounding the value of bonus payments and negating and fully compromising the negotiated limits on such payments. This is why the company never intended to collaboratively benchmark compensation with us; in doing so, they would have revealed their true intentions.

Obviously, this new information was a game-changer which stepped outside the bounds of normal, if heated, labor negotiations. This new information represented a complete deception from the company, going back to October of 2016, if not earlier. From that time forward, the company has withheld material information and kept us in the dark about their plans to recruit new hire pilots, and negotiated in bad faith with the intent of securing their individual interests to the detriment of acceptable ethics. There are two equally troubling elements to this. First, the company’s intent to circumvent our CBA represents a willingness to “bust” the union and limit our capacity to bargain for pilot wages and work rules by shifting compensation to opaque pre-employment contracts set outside the confines of the Railway Labor Act. Second, certain known members of Horizon’s executive team are conducting themselves dishonorably, misrepresenting key facts and engaging in outright deception. We view these as serious and overriding offenses which run directly counter to the bedrock principles of Air Group as well as the spirit of cooperation and goodwill. Let us be perfectly clear on this point: we negotiated in good faith, shared the basis of our proposals, met the company’s cost targets, and have been loyal employees and trustworthy partners looking for real solutions in the spirit of cooperation.

...A little more rah-rah follows, but you get the point.
So I don't understand the problem... They don't want restrictions on offering more money or bonuses to new pilots, the very thing that will bring pilots to Horizon, and you have an issue with that? I would think allowing them to spend more is a good thing.
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