What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
09-01-2017, 03:30 PM
#2131
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Left
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Jonneaux
Every contract has an out for non-performance. Horizon, for whatever reasons, has manifestly been failing to perform. AAG is quite unhappy that Horizon is dragging down the brand. "Brand" is of the utmost importance to Alaska, it is all that they have to fend off Delta. Deferring deliveries is an obvious, and undoubtedly necessary, remedy in the short term. This will give you some time to fix staffing and performance problems. The reason they are not forthcoming with specifics is undoubtedly because they are dependent upon Horizon resolving it's issues.
When Horizon has adequate staffing and acceptable performance, more aircraft will be forthcoming. In six months, if the problems aren't fixed, expect more deferrals. Eventually, AAG will pull the plug.
You've got maybe a year.
Horizon's pilots are in no way at fault for this situation, but beligerant actions by the union are likely counter productive.
When Horizon has adequate staffing and acceptable performance, more aircraft will be forthcoming. In six months, if the problems aren't fixed, expect more deferrals. Eventually, AAG will pull the plug.
You've got maybe a year.
Horizon's pilots are in no way at fault for this situation, but beligerant actions by the union are likely counter productive.
Would it be belligerent of Skywest to sue Alaska for breaking a contract?
Good luck in the glass house, no trouble will ever come to you. Need some rocks?
09-01-2017, 04:08 PM
#2132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Alaska management is going to be battling it out in court with its own pilot group in addition to the Horizon pilots. It's the same thing going on over at mainline. A toxic management culture exists within AAG from the very top going down.
ALL of them need to go if they ever hope to keep Alaska alive.
We gave AAG exactly what they wanted in order to get jets. Now they're saying we can't have them because of problems THEY created and exacerbated to an extreme. The sheer amount of arrogance displayed by our management team with regard to the pilot shortage is beyond anything comprehensible. We earnestly tried to explain to them what was coming in 2017 and they gave us a giant middle finger.
So no, filing this lawsuit is not a "belligerent action," it's a necessary one when dealing with a shady, dishonest, anti-pilot, arrogant, and quite evidently incompetent gang of managers.
ALL of them need to go if they ever hope to keep Alaska alive.
We gave AAG exactly what they wanted in order to get jets. Now they're saying we can't have them because of problems THEY created and exacerbated to an extreme. The sheer amount of arrogance displayed by our management team with regard to the pilot shortage is beyond anything comprehensible. We earnestly tried to explain to them what was coming in 2017 and they gave us a giant middle finger.
So no, filing this lawsuit is not a "belligerent action," it's a necessary one when dealing with a shady, dishonest, anti-pilot, arrogant, and quite evidently incompetent gang of managers.
09-01-2017, 04:29 PM
#2133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Q400, B-737
Posts: 324
"Belligerent action"?!
Dude, you've got a really interesting view of the world there...
A union's purpose is not to be a lapdog for management. They exist to try to make work a better place to be for the employees. (That's YOU, by the way.) The union is trying to find out what the hell is going on, because the company certainly doesn't seem to know.
Uncertainty about your job is condition nobody likes.
Dude, you've got a really interesting view of the world there...
A union's purpose is not to be a lapdog for management. They exist to try to make work a better place to be for the employees. (That's YOU, by the way.) The union is trying to find out what the hell is going on, because the company certainly doesn't seem to know.
Uncertainty about your job is condition nobody likes.
09-01-2017, 04:40 PM
#2134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: ERJ 175 Captain
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by snackysmores
Alaska management is going to be battling it out in court with its own pilot group in addition to the Horizon pilots. It's the same thing going on over at mainline. A toxic management culture exists within AAG from the very top going down.
ALL of them need to go if they ever hope to keep Alaska alive.
We gave AAG exactly what they wanted in order to get jets. Now they're saying we can't have them because of problems THEY created and exacerbated to an extreme. The sheer amount of arrogance displayed by our management team with regard to the pilot shortage is beyond anything comprehensible. We earnestly tried to explain to them what was coming in 2017 and they gave us a giant middle finger.
So no, filing this lawsuit is not a "belligerent action," it's a necessary one when dealing with a shady, dishonest, anti-pilot, arrogant, and quite evidently incompetent gang of managers.
ALL of them need to go if they ever hope to keep Alaska alive.
We gave AAG exactly what they wanted in order to get jets. Now they're saying we can't have them because of problems THEY created and exacerbated to an extreme. The sheer amount of arrogance displayed by our management team with regard to the pilot shortage is beyond anything comprehensible. We earnestly tried to explain to them what was coming in 2017 and they gave us a giant middle finger.
So no, filing this lawsuit is not a "belligerent action," it's a necessary one when dealing with a shady, dishonest, anti-pilot, arrogant, and quite evidently incompetent gang of managers.
09-01-2017, 04:48 PM
#2135
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 77
Flow thru is one of
Many components they need. They need control of the feed they don't have control with Skywest hence TWA , PanAm failed no feed as will Alaska if they don't want to embrace all ownership and immediately stop their BS putting band aids on what needs to be done or the entire AAG is at peril
Many components they need. They need control of the feed they don't have control with Skywest hence TWA , PanAm failed no feed as will Alaska if they don't want to embrace all ownership and immediately stop their BS putting band aids on what needs to be done or the entire AAG is at peril
09-01-2017, 05:01 PM
#2136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: ERJ 175 Captain
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by lowflying
You call it belligerent, but what good is the union if they let the aag blatantly violate the contract? This whole debacle is due to AAG hiring people who ran the company into the ground and now AAG is trying to get a pass.
Yes, the people AAG hired ran the company into the ground. So where does that leave you? The incompetents have been fired and replaced. You are still short about 100 pilots, you lose 15 per month. Each new plane requires 10 pilots. How many new pilots are you putting online every monty? You know better than me. You do the math. How long will it take to catch up? You are so far behind the power curve you may never catch up.
We retired the Alaska 700s last November, one has been back online in Seattle for months. By next month we will have four additional -200s and three more -700s covering Horizon flying. If you think that you can't be replaced you are smoking crack.
It was obvious last winter Horizon had a problem. This summer was a disaster. It isn't getting better, it's getting worse.
So, you have a union. Great! Let's say they win the injuntion, Great! You get five more planes this year that you can't staff, Great! Five to seven spare airplanes parked at the hanger while Alaska's customers are switching to Delta, because they can actually complete their schedule.
Go ahead, hate me. What's your answer?
09-01-2017, 05:08 PM
#2137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: ERJ 175 Captain
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by Freelindy
Glad you have it all figured out! we will see, won't we? In case you didn't know Alaska and Horizon are owned by Alaska Air Group and manages both. They should look in the mirror.
Would it be belligerent of Skywest to sue Alaska for breaking a contract?
Good luck in the glass house, no trouble will ever come to you. Need some rocks?
Would it be belligerent of Skywest to sue Alaska for breaking a contract?
Good luck in the glass house, no trouble will ever come to you. Need some rocks?
09-01-2017, 05:12 PM
#2138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: ERJ 175 Captain
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by N19906
"Belligerent action"?!
Dude, you've got a really interesting view of the world there...
A union's purpose is not to be a lapdog for management. They exist to try to make work a better place to be for the employees. (That's YOU, by the way.) The union is trying to find out what the hell is going on, because the company certainly doesn't seem to know.
Uncertainty about your job is condition nobody likes.
Dude, you've got a really interesting view of the world there...
A union's purpose is not to be a lapdog for management. They exist to try to make work a better place to be for the employees. (That's YOU, by the way.) The union is trying to find out what the hell is going on, because the company certainly doesn't seem to know.
Uncertainty about your job is condition nobody likes.
Not blaming the pilots. It's all manegements fault. None the less, not good. If you are optomistic about the future of Horizon, why?
Have I missed something? What's the unions answer? Give us more airplanes we can't fly?
09-01-2017, 05:23 PM
#2140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Originally Posted by Jonneaux
My view of the world is based on facts and reality. I wouldn't feel very comfortable at all if I were at Horizon. If I'm wrong in my assessment, please point it out.
Not blaming the pilots. It's all manegements fault. None the less, not good. If you are optomistic about the future of Horizon, why?
Have I missed something? What's the unions answer? Give us more airplanes we can't fly?
Not blaming the pilots. It's all manegements fault. None the less, not good. If you are optomistic about the future of Horizon, why?
Have I missed something? What's the unions answer? Give us more airplanes we can't fly?
The worst case scenario is this was their plan all along and they can start slowly scaling back Horizon flying by "deferring delivery slots" to Skywest over and over again. "We're sorry, we didn't meet our pilot hiring quota this month. Another jet to skywest. Don't worry, this will position us for growth later."
Like you mentioned earlier, trying to keep the rats in the boat. If we win this maybe we can learn what their potentially evil plan might be. We have to file the lawsuit to get it.
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