What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
02-24-2018, 11:42 AM
#3021
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 134
Thanks. Do you think this time might get shorter with the jet fleet expansion and potentially PDX becoming the next jet base? I know I’m assuming a lot here, but still ...
Originally Posted by snackysmores
New captains are getting it right away, even the new hire captain got it. At least 3-4 years to hold a line.
02-24-2018, 04:32 PM
#3022
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by ftaba1
Thanks. Do you think this time might get shorter with the jet fleet expansion and potentially PDX becoming the next jet base? I know I’m assuming a lot here, but still ...
02-24-2018, 05:12 PM
#3023
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
As the Q400 operation shrinks there will be voluntary displacements, or involuntary displacements to the jet in seniority order. If a PDX jet base opens up it will be voluntary. If SEA continues to be the only base there will be an involuntary displacement bid and captains will get the boot off the Q400 in reverse seniority order.
02-25-2018, 07:36 AM
#3024
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by snackysmores
I would highly advise against upgrading on the Q with zero experience in the airplane. I would also recommend sitting in the right seat for at least one winter. Our Q400 operation is overly complex and there is a LOT of little things you need to know about that will bite you if you aren't on top of your sh!t. The FO sitting next to you will probably be a new hire (every FO I'm flying with this upcoming bid is a new hire FWIW), and everyone is going to be looking at you to have all the answers 100% of the time. Everyone's flying backgrounds are different so I'm not saying it can't be done, but you have a lot of responsibility and it would definitely be less stressful if you want to get through your regional experience free of training/checkride/linecheck failures.
02-25-2018, 01:46 PM
#3025
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,397
Originally Posted by retrometro
What is overly complex about the Q at Horizon? De-ice procedures? HGS low visibility ops?
For example, the before start checklist has 32 items on the Q. On the jet? 15.
When you have an engine failure you're going to run an IAC (immediate action card). The jet has 4 items. The Q400 IAC leads you to an engine failure cleanup items checklist, with a total of 28 read and do actions.
Now imagine trying to do those 28 items, in terrible weather, out of an airport like Reno which has a "complex special" turn procedure you must fly to avoid hitting terrain, it looks like this:
So imagine having an engine failure on a hot day in Reno where it's imperative to fly that turn procedure, you must also remember all your engine failure procedure call outs (because your new hire FO might forget) AND do that 28 item checklist simultaneously. With zero time in the aircraft, this might be a little stressful. It would be stressful even for an experienced crew. This aircraft has zero tolerance for complacency and is not a forgiving plane to fly. I'm not trying to scare or discourage competent pilots, but it can be a serious reality check when bad things happen and everyone is looking at you, the captain, to have all the answers and know what to do immediately.
02-25-2018, 10:17 PM
#3027
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by snackysmores
It's just requires a lot of pilot input to make it do what you want it to, whereas the E175 knows what you want before you even want it...
For example, the before start checklist has 32 items on the Q. On the jet? 15.
When you have an engine failure you're going to run an IAC (immediate action card). The jet has 4 items. The Q400 IAC leads you to an engine failure cleanup items checklist, with a total of 28 read and do actions.
Now imagine trying to do those 28 items, in terrible weather, out of an airport like Reno which has a "complex special" turn procedure you must fly to avoid hitting terrain, it looks like this:
So imagine having an engine failure on a hot day in Reno where it's imperative to fly that turn procedure, you must also remember all your engine failure procedure call outs (because your new hire FO might forget) AND do that 28 item checklist simultaneously. With zero time in the aircraft, this might be a little stressful. It would be stressful even for an experienced crew. This aircraft has zero tolerance for complacency and is not a forgiving plane to fly. I'm not trying to scare or discourage competent pilots, but it can be a serious reality check when bad things happen and everyone is looking at you, the captain, to have all the answers and know what to do immediately.
For example, the before start checklist has 32 items on the Q. On the jet? 15.
When you have an engine failure you're going to run an IAC (immediate action card). The jet has 4 items. The Q400 IAC leads you to an engine failure cleanup items checklist, with a total of 28 read and do actions.
Now imagine trying to do those 28 items, in terrible weather, out of an airport like Reno which has a "complex special" turn procedure you must fly to avoid hitting terrain, it looks like this:
So imagine having an engine failure on a hot day in Reno where it's imperative to fly that turn procedure, you must also remember all your engine failure procedure call outs (because your new hire FO might forget) AND do that 28 item checklist simultaneously. With zero time in the aircraft, this might be a little stressful. It would be stressful even for an experienced crew. This aircraft has zero tolerance for complacency and is not a forgiving plane to fly. I'm not trying to scare or discourage competent pilots, but it can be a serious reality check when bad things happen and everyone is looking at you, the captain, to have all the answers and know what to do immediately.
02-27-2018, 11:10 AM
#3028
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 89
Line pilot staffing is getting to where it needs to be. As pointed out in previous posts, the jet is (way) overstaffed for just 10 jets and the Q needs captains. The company is likely trying to get ahead of the curve for future jet deliveries. The bottleneck is the training program. We need more instructors. The jet is getting 4 more check airmen signed off in the coming weeks which will reduce the sit time for IOE.
02-27-2018, 11:55 AM
#3029
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by snackysmores
It's just requires a lot of pilot input to make it do what you want it to, whereas the E175 knows what you want before you even want it...
For example, the before start checklist has 32 items on the Q. On the jet? 15.
When you have an engine failure you're going to run an IAC (immediate action card). The jet has 4 items. The Q400 IAC leads you to an engine failure cleanup items checklist, with a total of 28 read and do actions.
Now imagine trying to do those 28 items, in terrible weather, out of an airport like Reno which has a "complex special" turn procedure you must fly to avoid hitting terrain, it looks like this:
So imagine having an engine failure on a hot day in Reno where it's imperative to fly that turn procedure, you must also remember all your engine failure procedure call outs (because your new hire FO might forget) AND do that 28 item checklist simultaneously. With zero time in the aircraft, this might be a little stressful. It would be stressful even for an experienced crew. This aircraft has zero tolerance for complacency and is not a forgiving plane to fly. I'm not trying to scare or discourage competent pilots, but it can be a serious reality check when bad things happen and everyone is looking at you, the captain, to have all the answers and know what to do immediately.
For example, the before start checklist has 32 items on the Q. On the jet? 15.
When you have an engine failure you're going to run an IAC (immediate action card). The jet has 4 items. The Q400 IAC leads you to an engine failure cleanup items checklist, with a total of 28 read and do actions.
Now imagine trying to do those 28 items, in terrible weather, out of an airport like Reno which has a "complex special" turn procedure you must fly to avoid hitting terrain, it looks like this:
So imagine having an engine failure on a hot day in Reno where it's imperative to fly that turn procedure, you must also remember all your engine failure procedure call outs (because your new hire FO might forget) AND do that 28 item checklist simultaneously. With zero time in the aircraft, this might be a little stressful. It would be stressful even for an experienced crew. This aircraft has zero tolerance for complacency and is not a forgiving plane to fly. I'm not trying to scare or discourage competent pilots, but it can be a serious reality check when bad things happen and everyone is looking at you, the captain, to have all the answers and know what to do immediately.
02-27-2018, 01:23 PM
#3030
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by lowflying
If you're doing the cleanup items before you are comfortably in the hold you're probably doing it wrong... Is the prop feathered and the flaps up? Unless you're on fire why not stay heads up until you finish aviating?
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