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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

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What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

Old 01-06-2017, 02:24 PM
  #901  
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You say you've taken the job already and didn't know about it. You haven't taken anything. Your class is still 2 weeks away. You know exactly what you are doing and if you decide to take the money you are essentially saying you are OK with the company violating our contract to line your pockets.[/QUOTE]

That's BS... I've watched the pilots consistently vote for bad contracts for 15 years and you've allowed the company to walk all over you. That's your problem, not this new hire. Horizon is trying to keep afloat by offering bonuses like everyone else and rightly so. They won't exist if they don't. If he/she gets a bonus... good for them. They deserve it. It's hard enough for the new generation to get through school, training, poverty and crappy FO pay to now have to listen to angry captains rant about issues they should have fixed years ago.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:26 PM
  #902  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
The company meets with the union and says they want to raise first year pay to $40 but also have the ability to lower it back down if they want. Union says no; we took a massive concessionary contract and if they want to renegotiate first year pay we can renegotiate the other things they took away.

Company says alright, give us your proposal. Union presents an industry standard pay package for new hires and retention bonuses for current pilots. Company laughs at the union and walks out of the room. Company then meets with the union again and offers their same deal as before with no changes. Union walks away.

Company then announces F#%^ it we're going to do whatever we want and offers the pre employment bonus of 10k to circumvent our contract because the pilots technically aren't employed yet.

You say you've taken the job already and didn't know about it. You haven't taken anything. Your class is still 2 weeks away. You know exactly what you are doing and if you decide to take the money you are essentially saying you are OK with the company violating our contract to line your pockets.
That's BS... I've watched the pilots consistently vote for bad contracts for 15 years and you've allowed the company to walk all over you. That's your problem, not this new hire. Horizon is trying to keep afloat by offering bonuses like everyone else and rightly so. They won't exist if they don't. If he/she gets a bonus... good for them. They deserve it. It's hard enough for the new generation to get through school, training, poverty and crappy FO pay to now have to listen to angry captains rant about issues they should have fixed years ago.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:04 PM
  #903  
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Originally Posted by snackysmores View Post
The company meets with the union and says they want to raise first year pay to $40 but also have the ability to lower it back down if they want. Union says no; we took a massive concessionary contract and if they want to renegotiate first year pay we can renegotiate the other things they took away.

Company says alright, give us your proposal. Union presents an industry standard pay package for new hires and retention bonuses for current pilots. Company laughs at the union and walks out of the room. Company then meets with the union again and offers their same deal as before with no changes. Union walks away.

Company then announces F#%^ it we're going to do whatever we want and offers the pre employment bonus of 10k to circumvent our contract because the pilots technically aren't employed yet.

You say you've taken the job already and didn't know about it. You haven't taken anything. Your class is still 2 weeks away. You know exactly what you are doing and if you decide to take the money you are essentially saying you are OK with the company violating our contract to line your pockets.
Your first 3 paragraphs are right on the money. That's why QX is in the situation we are in.

The last paragraph isn't even close to fair for new FO's. If the company gave you 10k when you got hired, I'm sure you would have taken it. It's not a new hire's fault that they are in the right place at the right time and we weren't. I would sure love to cash in on the scholarships and the 10k that QX is offering. That would cut my student loan debt in half. There is no way that I can hold this signing bonus over my FO's head. They are just taking advantage of the state of the industry. There is no reason to rope new hires into our company vs union power struggle.

@150aerobat, most of the guys here won't have a problem if you take the bonus.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:17 PM
  #904  
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Originally Posted by higherclimb View Post
Horizon is trying to keep afloat by offering bonuses like everyone else and rightly so. They won't exist if they don't. If he/she gets a bonus... good for them.
Just not legally, but who cares about that anyway? Why bother trying to make anything better here if everyone's okay with contributing to the problem. We had a solution to this problem early last year and the company had no interest in discussing new hire pay and bonuses because they convinced themselves everything was fine. They are 100% responsible for this and they've decided to break the contract to make up for their ineptitude.

If he has any sense he will take the 10k and go to SkyWest where he can get an e175, Portland or Seattle out of training, better pay and QOL and be treated better.

A lot of people say they're coming here for Boise, Medford or Spokane but those bases are on the chopping block. You will eventually be commuting anyway.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:38 PM
  #905  
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Although snackysmore's comment doesn't break it down this way if you read it literally, I assumed he was talking about "taking the job + 10k", which is bit different then taking the job and being guilt tripped into not accepting the 10k. The difference is in how it effects American pilots as a united workforce and their fight against poor working conditions and pay.

He can easily take another job in the same city, with better working conditions, better pay, and more respect from management without hurting the profession.
If he takes the Horizon job, you're all correct that he isn't undeserving of the money, but he is knowingly delaying the better good for that pilot group. Horizon needs to suffer greatly if they're ever going to change. Every new hire they get delays the management's suffering and prolong's the pilots.

I don't know what Horizon pilot's did in the past but now is what matters and it's against all pilot's best interests to help Horizon continue operating with their current lack of respect for pilots. In 6 months it might be another airline, and if we can stand together and assert some control, it will help all of us much more in the long run than any bonus ever will.

No I don't work for Horizon.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:40 PM
  #906  
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Originally Posted by JetLikeSpeeds View Post
Your first 3 paragraphs are right on the money. That's why QX is in the situation we are in.

The last paragraph isn't even close to fair for new FO's. If the company gave you 10k when you got hired, I'm sure you would have taken it.
You clearly don't know me. If I was a new hire and read this entire thread I wouldn't walk away, I'd run.

If a new hire has no idea whats going on and is completely ignorant of the situation I wouldn't hold it against them. However, if an applicant has read this entire thread and understands the repercussions of their actions and still decides to take the money then I will judge their character. I got loans and sh*t to pay for too but I won't step on our profession or act in self interest, especially when there's so many other better options out there with legitimate bonuses. I don't care about the 10k. After taxes it's more like $7500 anyway. I'd be more concerned about working for a company that enforces strict contract compliance only when it benefits them, and routinely forces and expects flight crews to absorb the brunt of their incompetence and terrible management decisions.

Last edited by snackysmores; 01-06-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:12 PM
  #907  
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10K sounds like a small down payment on 100K worth of problems. "Rosie O'Donnell described as Kate Upton" was what a friend there said about what's behind the advertising link.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:24 PM
  #908  
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Like I said, I accepted the job offer last week completely unaware of a bonus. I knew what the pay was, and I told myself that I could make it work for a year. By year 2 pay goes up to $42/hr which is really about the same or better than most regionals. Now they have a bonus and you want me to leave!??! For me, Horizon was the only option in the NW, and I was happy to get an offer. If I just wanted to "line my pockets" I would take the money and run. That doesn't even make sense considering I was happy before the bonus.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:15 PM
  #909  
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Originally Posted by 150Aerobat View Post
Like I said, I accepted the job offer last week completely unaware of a bonus. I knew what the pay was, and I told myself that I could make it work for a year. By year 2 pay goes up to $42/hr which is really about the same or better than most regionals. Now they have a bonus and you want me to leave!??! For me, Horizon was the only option in the NW, and I was happy to get an offer. If I just wanted to "line my pockets" I would take the money and run. That doesn't even make sense considering I was happy before the bonus.
To each his own. On a personal note, why do you feel Horizon is your only option for the NW?
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:01 PM
  #910  
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Time to start burning up your vacation "sierra" guys! Its about to get ugly here. I also expect to see more nuisance write ups at remote outstations, making sure we are extra "ready" and "safe" before we "go" on the STAR flights etc. Or, how about not acting like turbo prop pilots? Stuff like slowing down the taxi speed a little and no more intersection takeoffs? Or how about not using personal phones for those last minute calls to CLP... you know, like when the satcom isnt working very well at the gate? We have a huge impact on the performance of this operation, maybe its time to demonstrate this!

It blows my mind the way this formerly great airline is treating its pilots at a time when there is clearly a shortage AND record profits are being seen by the Airgroup. Sad.

Last edited by SIUav8er; 01-06-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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