What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
#1963
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 41
Premium Pay
So, a quick question about the premium pay email from a few days ago. Are the trips still being paid at the 200%, or 150%? And, why would the union be so against a pay higher than 150%, when the contract doesn't state pay is capped at 150% (I don't see limiting language anywhere, i.e. "not more than 150%"), unless I missed something? It seems that the 200% pay shows what we are worth and can be used in negotiating new rates for everyone, not just the new hire FOs.
#1964
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 209
So, a quick question about the premium pay email from a few days ago. Are the trips still being paid at the 200%, or 150%? And, why would the union be so against a pay higher than 150%, when the contract doesn't state pay is capped at 150% (I don't see limiting language anywhere, i.e. "not more than 150%"), unless I missed something? It seems that the 200% pay shows what we are worth and can be used in negotiating new rates for everyone, not just the new hire FOs.
#1965
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 41
Not trying to hijack this thread. I just have genuine interest in QX. And just wanted to give you insight on what's happened on the other side of the country w this issue. I do not have your CBA, but ours at PDT uses a formula if there is a certain amount of open time company required to offer PRM pay. It's gotten so bad they now offer 16 hrs per day of additional flying. our schedules are horrible. Have to be worst in the industry. Every line is 4 on 2 off except maybe 3. This is no joke. And all are min 75 cred. But, people are whoring themselves out every chance they get violating contract and dropping below min days off. Then turn around and gripe about schedules being poor. The company has no reason to give us anything better because the flying is covered. So maybe your best strategy for higher rates would be to not touch prm paying open time, get Jr mans out of the way early and they might be apt to give you what you want quickly. I'll keep my nose out of your thread if no on wants to hear about comparison. Just feel these two airlines are becoming very similar. I'm still embarrassed how we cut eagles throats to get out lame deal of a magical flow. Absolutely disgusted whenever I have to talk about how it all really happened. Watching how poor you have been treated and how they have used Skywest against you. Truly sickening from the outside.
#1966
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 456
I think Air Group is using Skywest against us. However, if they are willing to pay 200% for open time, and have already cancelled 300+ flights next month, doesn't that show they recognize a higher pay rate for all pilots is justified? Can't/shouldn't that be used in future negotiations? And, why should those that pick up the 200% trips be pressured to not pick them up? Picking them up shows the market rate for pay. Just my $0.02.
This is also not a "pay rate" as you suggest. Pay rates are codified in the contract and cannot be raised and lowered at the company's discretion. This is a short term fix and will go (and has gone) away as quickly as it appeared. They didn't just magically realize that your services are worth more. Flight completion at the least cost to them is worth more. They've got some pretty bright folks (with numbers, guys, not necessarily leaders, don't flame) who have done the math and told them that paying 200% now and canceling x number of flights still makes more money than actually paying the pilots more.
A little history on this, 200% existed 3 years ago, then it evaporated. Some guys took a pretty big hit because they made financial decisions based on that extra pay. It wasn't a pay rate in the contract, though, so when it was gone, well, sorry guys. Then we were told it'd be a cold day in hell before it ever came back.
The analogy: scheduling sucks and a bunch of guys are fatigued. Nobody calls in, though, because fatigue calls aren't pay protected. The union approaches the company about improving schedules because pilots are fatigued, but the company counters with "well hey, look at this really small number of fatigue calls we actually have...you know, empirical data. We don't have a problem, so we're not changing scheduling." Call fatigued when you're fatigued, and guess what, that's ammo for several things in the next contract.
If, after fully understanding the implications of picking up 200% pay, a dude or dudette still wants to pick it up, by all means, have at it, but don't expect a hero's welcome when you show for your trip.
tl;dr version: Fly the contract.
#1967
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 41
For the reason you think it'll help in future negotiations, it will actually get used against you. Strict adherence to the contract is what helps when it comes time to work on the next one. The company makes a note of every time a pilot waives part of the contract (here it's the extra pay, but it could be a scheduling issue, fatigue, etc., I'll try to draw an analogy to illustrate this for you), and when the next round of negotiations come up, they'll put all that in front of the union and say "look, your pilots are fine with the rates as they are now, so we don't need to raise pay." 200% is a short term fix, it's not in the contract, but the more people use it, the more the company can argue status quo (that's the legal term) in the next negotiations.
This is also not a "pay rate" as you suggest. Pay rates are codified in the contract and cannot be raised and lowered at the company's discretion. This is a short term fix and will go (and has gone) away as quickly as it appeared. They didn't just magically realize that your services are worth more. Flight completion at the least cost to them is worth more. They've got some pretty bright folks (with numbers, guys, not necessarily leaders, don't flame) who have done the math and told them that paying 200% now and canceling x number of flights still makes more money than actually paying the pilots more.
A little history on this, 200% existed 3 years ago, then it evaporated. Some guys took a pretty big hit because they made financial decisions based on that extra pay. It wasn't a pay rate in the contract, though, so when it was gone, well, sorry guys. Then we were told it'd be a cold day in hell before it ever came back.
The analogy: scheduling sucks and a bunch of guys are fatigued. Nobody calls in, though, because fatigue calls aren't pay protected. The union approaches the company about improving schedules because pilots are fatigued, but the company counters with "well hey, look at this really small number of fatigue calls we actually have...you know, empirical data. We don't have a problem, so we're not changing scheduling." Call fatigued when you're fatigued, and guess what, that's ammo for several things in the next contract.
If, after fully understanding the implications of picking up 200% pay, a dude or dudette still wants to pick it up, by all means, have at it, but don't expect a hero's welcome when you show for your trip.
tl;dr version: Fly the contract.
This is also not a "pay rate" as you suggest. Pay rates are codified in the contract and cannot be raised and lowered at the company's discretion. This is a short term fix and will go (and has gone) away as quickly as it appeared. They didn't just magically realize that your services are worth more. Flight completion at the least cost to them is worth more. They've got some pretty bright folks (with numbers, guys, not necessarily leaders, don't flame) who have done the math and told them that paying 200% now and canceling x number of flights still makes more money than actually paying the pilots more.
A little history on this, 200% existed 3 years ago, then it evaporated. Some guys took a pretty big hit because they made financial decisions based on that extra pay. It wasn't a pay rate in the contract, though, so when it was gone, well, sorry guys. Then we were told it'd be a cold day in hell before it ever came back.
The analogy: scheduling sucks and a bunch of guys are fatigued. Nobody calls in, though, because fatigue calls aren't pay protected. The union approaches the company about improving schedules because pilots are fatigued, but the company counters with "well hey, look at this really small number of fatigue calls we actually have...you know, empirical data. We don't have a problem, so we're not changing scheduling." Call fatigued when you're fatigued, and guess what, that's ammo for several things in the next contract.
If, after fully understanding the implications of picking up 200% pay, a dude or dudette still wants to pick it up, by all means, have at it, but don't expect a hero's welcome when you show for your trip.
tl;dr version: Fly the contract.
#1968
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
I think Air Group is using Skywest against us. However, if they are willing to pay 200% for open time, and have already cancelled 300+ flights next month, doesn't that show they recognize a higher pay rate for all pilots is justified? Can't/shouldn't that be used in future negotiations? And, why should those that pick up the 200% trips be pressured to not pick them up? Picking them up shows the market rate for pay. Just my $0.02.
#1970
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 41
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