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Old 07-18-2017, 07:42 PM   #1961  
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we're fked
But she is "so sorry," about that.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:31 AM   #1962  
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What's the reserve time for Ejet new hire?

Anymore rumors about next Ejet base?

Are there any training gaps/backlog once class starts? Or can one expect nonstop from start of Indoc to finishing IOE?

Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:37 AM   #1963  
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So, a quick question about the premium pay email from a few days ago. Are the trips still being paid at the 200%, or 150%? And, why would the union be so against a pay higher than 150%, when the contract doesn't state pay is capped at 150% (I don't see limiting language anywhere, i.e. "not more than 150%"), unless I missed something? It seems that the 200% pay shows what we are worth and can be used in negotiating new rates for everyone, not just the new hire FOs.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:02 AM   #1964  
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So, a quick question about the premium pay email from a few days ago. Are the trips still being paid at the 200%, or 150%? And, why would the union be so against a pay higher than 150%, when the contract doesn't state pay is capped at 150% (I don't see limiting language anywhere, i.e. "not more than 150%"), unless I missed something? It seems that the 200% pay shows what we are worth and can be used in negotiating new rates for everyone, not just the new hire FOs.
Not trying to hijack this thread. I just have genuine interest in QX. And just wanted to give you insight on what's happened on the other side of the country w this issue. I do not have your CBA, but ours at PDT uses a formula if there is a certain amount of open time company required to offer PRM pay. It's gotten so bad they now offer 16 hrs per day of additional flying. our schedules are horrible. Have to be worst in the industry. Every line is 4 on 2 off except maybe 3. This is no joke. And all are min 75 cred. But, people are whoring themselves out every chance they get violating contract and dropping below min days off. Then turn around and gripe about schedules being poor. The company has no reason to give us anything better because the flying is covered. So maybe your best strategy for higher rates would be to not touch prm paying open time, get Jr mans out of the way early and they might be apt to give you what you want quickly. I'll keep my nose out of your thread if no on wants to hear about comparison. Just feel these two airlines are becoming very similar. I'm still embarrassed how we cut eagles throats to get out lame deal of a magical flow. Absolutely disgusted whenever I have to talk about how it all really happened. Watching how poor you have been treated and how they have used Skywest against you. Truly sickening from the outside.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:33 AM   #1965  
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Not trying to hijack this thread. I just have genuine interest in QX. And just wanted to give you insight on what's happened on the other side of the country w this issue. I do not have your CBA, but ours at PDT uses a formula if there is a certain amount of open time company required to offer PRM pay. It's gotten so bad they now offer 16 hrs per day of additional flying. our schedules are horrible. Have to be worst in the industry. Every line is 4 on 2 off except maybe 3. This is no joke. And all are min 75 cred. But, people are whoring themselves out every chance they get violating contract and dropping below min days off. Then turn around and gripe about schedules being poor. The company has no reason to give us anything better because the flying is covered. So maybe your best strategy for higher rates would be to not touch prm paying open time, get Jr mans out of the way early and they might be apt to give you what you want quickly. I'll keep my nose out of your thread if no on wants to hear about comparison. Just feel these two airlines are becoming very similar. I'm still embarrassed how we cut eagles throats to get out lame deal of a magical flow. Absolutely disgusted whenever I have to talk about how it all really happened. Watching how poor you have been treated and how they have used Skywest against you. Truly sickening from the outside.
I think Air Group is using Skywest against us. However, if they are willing to pay 200% for open time, and have already cancelled 300+ flights next month, doesn't that show they recognize a higher pay rate for all pilots is justified? Can't/shouldn't that be used in future negotiations? And, why should those that pick up the 200% trips be pressured to not pick them up? Picking them up shows the market rate for pay. Just my $0.02.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:59 AM   #1966  
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I think Air Group is using Skywest against us. However, if they are willing to pay 200% for open time, and have already cancelled 300+ flights next month, doesn't that show they recognize a higher pay rate for all pilots is justified? Can't/shouldn't that be used in future negotiations? And, why should those that pick up the 200% trips be pressured to not pick them up? Picking them up shows the market rate for pay. Just my $0.02.
For the reason you think it'll help in future negotiations, it will actually get used against you. Strict adherence to the contract is what helps when it comes time to work on the next one. The company makes a note of every time a pilot waives part of the contract (here it's the extra pay, but it could be a scheduling issue, fatigue, etc., I'll try to draw an analogy to illustrate this for you), and when the next round of negotiations come up, they'll put all that in front of the union and say "look, your pilots are fine with the rates as they are now, so we don't need to raise pay." 200% is a short term fix, it's not in the contract, but the more people use it, the more the company can argue status quo (that's the legal term) in the next negotiations.

This is also not a "pay rate" as you suggest. Pay rates are codified in the contract and cannot be raised and lowered at the company's discretion. This is a short term fix and will go (and has gone) away as quickly as it appeared. They didn't just magically realize that your services are worth more. Flight completion at the least cost to them is worth more. They've got some pretty bright folks (with numbers, guys, not necessarily leaders, don't flame) who have done the math and told them that paying 200% now and canceling x number of flights still makes more money than actually paying the pilots more.

A little history on this, 200% existed 3 years ago, then it evaporated. Some guys took a pretty big hit because they made financial decisions based on that extra pay. It wasn't a pay rate in the contract, though, so when it was gone, well, sorry guys. Then we were told it'd be a cold day in hell before it ever came back.

The analogy: scheduling sucks and a bunch of guys are fatigued. Nobody calls in, though, because fatigue calls aren't pay protected. The union approaches the company about improving schedules because pilots are fatigued, but the company counters with "well hey, look at this really small number of fatigue calls we actually have...you know, empirical data. We don't have a problem, so we're not changing scheduling." Call fatigued when you're fatigued, and guess what, that's ammo for several things in the next contract.

If, after fully understanding the implications of picking up 200% pay, a dude or dudette still wants to pick it up, by all means, have at it, but don't expect a hero's welcome when you show for your trip.

tl;dr version: Fly the contract.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:07 PM   #1967  
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For the reason you think it'll help in future negotiations, it will actually get used against you. Strict adherence to the contract is what helps when it comes time to work on the next one. The company makes a note of every time a pilot waives part of the contract (here it's the extra pay, but it could be a scheduling issue, fatigue, etc., I'll try to draw an analogy to illustrate this for you), and when the next round of negotiations come up, they'll put all that in front of the union and say "look, your pilots are fine with the rates as they are now, so we don't need to raise pay." 200% is a short term fix, it's not in the contract, but the more people use it, the more the company can argue status quo (that's the legal term) in the next negotiations.

This is also not a "pay rate" as you suggest. Pay rates are codified in the contract and cannot be raised and lowered at the company's discretion. This is a short term fix and will go (and has gone) away as quickly as it appeared. They didn't just magically realize that your services are worth more. Flight completion at the least cost to them is worth more. They've got some pretty bright folks (with numbers, guys, not necessarily leaders, don't flame) who have done the math and told them that paying 200% now and canceling x number of flights still makes more money than actually paying the pilots more.

A little history on this, 200% existed 3 years ago, then it evaporated. Some guys took a pretty big hit because they made financial decisions based on that extra pay. It wasn't a pay rate in the contract, though, so when it was gone, well, sorry guys. Then we were told it'd be a cold day in hell before it ever came back.

The analogy: scheduling sucks and a bunch of guys are fatigued. Nobody calls in, though, because fatigue calls aren't pay protected. The union approaches the company about improving schedules because pilots are fatigued, but the company counters with "well hey, look at this really small number of fatigue calls we actually have...you know, empirical data. We don't have a problem, so we're not changing scheduling." Call fatigued when you're fatigued, and guess what, that's ammo for several things in the next contract.

If, after fully understanding the implications of picking up 200% pay, a dude or dudette still wants to pick it up, by all means, have at it, but don't expect a hero's welcome when you show for your trip.

tl;dr version: Fly the contract.
Thanks for the background, and input. I'm new to this whole thing, and trying to learn. My two biggest take aways from your comment, after the "Fly the contract" (which makes complete sense as you explained everything) are: 1 - fly by the regulations and call in fatigued when you are fatigued. 2 - don't budget over minimum pay. Take the extra over the guaranteed minimum and save it, or pay off debt. Never run your personal budget on something that isn't guaranteed.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:09 PM   #1968  
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I think Air Group is using Skywest against us. However, if they are willing to pay 200% for open time, and have already cancelled 300+ flights next month, doesn't that show they recognize a higher pay rate for all pilots is justified? Can't/shouldn't that be used in future negotiations? And, why should those that pick up the 200% trips be pressured to not pick them up? Picking them up shows the market rate for pay. Just my $0.02.
Higher pay rates = more cost = Mesa would be cheaper....
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:17 PM   #1969  
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Guys I think we can all trust the Chief Pilot when she said the real reason they ended 200% was because they didn't want to divide the pilot group
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:40 PM   #1970  
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Guys I think we can all trust the Chief Pilot when she said the real reason they ended 200% was because they didn't want to divide the pilot group
I always wondered what a sarcasm font would look like.
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