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E190 no VOR/DME approaches

Old 06-13-2018, 03:17 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by cougar View Post
Odd to ask for the RNP 22L as well. ATC in US refers to approaches as RNAV Y 22L, or RNAV Z 22L. Only JAR OPS/ICAO uses RNP or RNP AR terminology. Confusing as to which approach he was requesting.
When we fly into DCA they assign us the RNP 19. There is nothing confusing about that terminology, it's on the (Z 22L)chart, and if it was only international operators using it, surely a NY controller would have talked to one of those guys at least once or twice in his career.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:05 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Southerner View Post
So a flight crew doesn't understand the SOP, and it's the controller who is the problem? Seems legit...

The controller was confused why they are the only JetBlue plane that cannot accept the approach. It makes sense for him to ask why.
Or, like so many of our SOPs, they are poorly written and essentially un-taught. And for years in LOFT scenarios the schoolhouse was pushing “request the RNP” for that runway.

The approach meets all the requirements to fly as a precision approach, EXCEPT it lacks “or gps” in the title, which may or may not be required by E190 FCOM VOL 1. (paragraph 3.27.9.1 and 3.27.9.2 contradict each other here). Shocking that the crew could be confused here with our grade-A training
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:46 PM
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I’m told by my ORD friends JFK is the biggest training facility in the country. It’s also where controllers go for their last “chance”. Just food for thought. Some of them are pros but the most are an embarrassment. But this is only tower I speak of. Approach. Not sure but it the only airport where I’ve asked to call them when I get on the ground. Christ I’ve been given a hold on departure at that place
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:03 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by N311JB View Post
I’m told by my ORD friends JFK is the biggest training facility in the country.
I have heard that about IAD, DCA, and SLC also. ATC training is probably like everything else in aviation, more complicated than those outside of the particular field understand.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aewanabe View Post
Or, like so many of our SOPs, they are poorly written and essentially un-taught. And for years in LOFT scenarios the schoolhouse was pushing “request the RNP” for that runway.

The approach meets all the requirements to fly as a precision approach, EXCEPT it lacks “or gps” in the title, which may or may not be required by E190 FCOM VOL 1. (paragraph 3.27.9.1 and 3.27.9.2 contradict each other here). Shocking that the crew could be confused here with our grade-A training
If it has vertical guidance, it's legal. (With the exception of certain international RNP AR approaches)

Read the Ops Spec if you're confused.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:31 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Southerner View Post
If it has vertical guidance, it's legal. (With the exception of certain international RNP AR approaches)

Read the Ops Spec if you're confused.
I agree it’s legal. I’d argue that in a pinch, crews are going to the FCOM for guidance, not the OpSpecs.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:55 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine View Post
I have heard that about IAD, DCA, and SLC also. ATC training is probably like everything else in aviation, more complicated than those outside of the particular field understand.
Every ATC facility is a training facility. it's OJT.

There's no start here because it's easier or send them there because they're good.

You get assigned out of OKC, choose to accept it then may transfer if staffing and seniority permits within your qualifications.
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