I always love hearing from the fans.
You're the reason we do this.

Love & Xs Zulu.
Bz

Well done BD. :D

Chief pilot is probably one of the worst jobs at any airline. I'm not sure why so many people here think it's something magical that we should all aspire to.

Um yeah, that's not what we think or mean. It takes a certain kind of person to WANT to be a chief, and that usually isn't good...

Jetblue flys BOS-ACK. On a E190. I'm not sure you know exactly what you're talking about.

You get more kick backs doing special projects.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Yeah, I’ve flown it. We do what 1 or 2 a day seasonally? We can’t feasibly do it with the frequency they do it. Flying 50 miles, burning 1000 lbs of jet a between taxi on both ends and ground time there with the APU on, plus whatever the flight burns, plus the cycles on the plane/motors, doesn’t exactly make for a great jet route. It’s extremely high CASM. Cape doing it on piston twins with a handful of people on each one is a lot better suited for it than we are on an E190. Our codeshare with them in that route isn’t exactly a threat to our growth, nor taking measurable business from jetblue pilots. I’ve said repeatedly codeshares on routes we can’t feasibly do ourselves or with equipment we don't have aren’t the problem. The problem is codesharing on routes we can feasibly do ourselves with equipment we have (a la Alaska/possibly Moxy), which this TA allows in basically unlimited fashion. Our west coast growth failure, with no plan right now, leaves ALK codeshares as a real possibility, eliminating our attempts to get slots/gate space/organic growth intra west coast. Please tell me what exactly you think I don’t know about this? I’m sure it’s plenty, but I’d like you to enlighten me.

Here’s some enlightenment: we currently have zero protections against any and all codesharing, against any alter-egos, etc., and we’re rapidly nearing the end of one of the longest bull markets in the entire history of the USA.

Ok Cindy so we need to take the first offer we are given because of fear? No thanks. TAs are supposed to be voted on based on their value and merits, not on fear. Fear is an emotion. Don’t vote on emotion. Really wish people would stop being so afraid of the bogeyman when voting on something that affects my family.

If you think the bull market will flip and is gonna tank in the time it takes us to fix this thing, go buy a ton of VXX and short the market. But don’t take me down with you because you are afraid.

Please enlighten me more.

That's not fear. It's being rational. The TA is a good deal. It isn't great, but it's solid, and gets us on the map. If the economy turns, we will be lucky to have this deal.

So you're a juggernaut under current book, but fear what B6 will do once they have limits? And Im talking the entire TA.
Gotcha. :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you are so sure the market will tank that you are willing to condemn us all to discount wages for our whole careers, you should be getting rich on Wall Street.

I live under current book right now. I know the risks. I also know what leverage we have now that we won’t in 3.5-7 years as we negotiate our second contract. 6-12 more months of current book doesn’t scare me. Being locked in a substandard contract for the next 4-8 years is more worrisome, as well as giving some things away that can’t be easily gotten back, especially with less leverage. Not to mention showing mgmt and F&H that we are willing to accept less than market rate as a pilot group.

We disagree on risk tolerance I guess, as well as current and future value, and our self-worth. Did you marry the first chick who talked to you out of fear of being alone forever? I held out and am glad I did. I’ve “held out for more” in lots of things in life, and worked/fought hard to get things I want. I haven’t decided how I will vote yet, but when I do decide, it will be based on the value of the TA over the next 4-8 years in relation to the going rate in the industry, not fear.

Did the union spread “the sky is falling, we have no protection, and the economy will tank so we need to lock this in” rhetoric or did you guys just make it up on your own? I haven’t heard or seen it yet from them. But I see it from a lot of the usual company guys. Not that you are one, just an observation from here, the other forums, and my circle of friends. My juicer friends are the ones who think this TA is great and we need to hurry up and sign before X, Y, or Z happens. Correlation?

and you should send your paychecks to me....:D

I would argue that this is a market rate contract in plenty of ways. Yes I have read and watched all available information as well as contract comparisons across all sections to have this opinion. Is it perfect? No nor am I should have seen my last slamding.

I too, do not not act out of fear. The unknown without Merger and Scope language is REAL though.

IMHO. It is a solid foundation which we would need moving forward for all future contracts moving forward. Thoughts?

I agree it is market rate in many areas. Most of it is good. But some of the few items that are sticking points aren’t minor and sway too far from market rate in its totality, and may warrant a no vote. Which is why I’m not set one way or another yet. I also don’t know if I agree with the solid foundation part...it’s ok but could be more solid...now is the time to get what we need, not 4 years from now when the landscape may (or may not) change. We have leverage now. We need to leverage our leverage.

So your attempt at persuading others to vote no is to call them pussies.

Gotcha.

Didn't know they gave middle schoolers ATP's.

Oh really? Where did I do that?

I bolded it for you.

Sorry, should have quoted this one too.

And where is the name calling (specifically one that starts with “p”) you speak of? That’s not name calling. Peace.

Your intent is clear.

The implication is obvious. And I hope you're not treating your colleagues in the cockpit like this.

Treating them like what...sharing my opinions with them? So you guys who love it can jump around with joy and put down everyone who has opposing opinions? Anyone who agrees with you is good, anyone who disagrees with you is mean, a name caller, a bigot, etc.? What is this, CNN?

No, that's not it at all. There are plenty of reasons for voting against this.

But that doesn't give you the right to be an ******* to your colleagues.

Which is what you're doing. Not because of your opinion, but because of how you're behaving.

Your posts are falling on deaf ears, I'm afraid. He doesn't realize that a fact is something like "The PTO sellback provisions impact me personally more that others, and therefore I'm voting No."

Versus a personal attack, which sounds like, "Only a weak idiot would vote yes to this, and our group is full of weak pilots who are 'just happy to be here.'"

I blame Trump for this kind of behavior.

https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/1439835...S-facebook.jpg

Nice. Facts? Truth? There is no such thing as objective truth.

I mean reality IS an illusion, as is time.

Yeah...my posts are all devoid of facts. Got it.

There are a few facts sprinkled in with the ad hominem.

Let’s review some facts you construe as ad-hominem:
1) union asked us to wear lanyards as a show of unity
2) F&H union busters tally our lanyards to judge unity
3) you refuse to do this simple task
4) People bring it up to you and you throw a fit for bringing up facts that you don’t like.

Now. Want to move on and debate facts of this TA? Like E195-E2, a 124-128 seat plane, paying $50 less than the smaller CS100 on DALs rates? Or the fact that our CS100 rates are $40 less than DAL’s? Or that our PS cliff makes our PS almost worthless? Or that our cola is sub par? Or that our 321 and/or blended rate is below everyone else’s in our peer group to start, and continues to fall further behind? Or our already bad medical changed by $300 a year seed money?

No emotion. Just facts. Facts you don’t like to acknowledge.

We can talk about the happy facts too, but my point has been to ask if the shortfalls are worth holding out for. Check your emotion at the door. I know you get emotional when people ask for your support to stand with the rest of us and show unity with a lanyard, or when people bring up negatives about the TA, or when queue posts. No need for it.

I never threw a fit. I'm talking about your other posts. I don't give a crap what you think about me wearing a lanyard or not. That's not what we are here to discuss. You want to focus on that, because you use it as a straw man technique. You really should study up on logical fallacies...

I'm not emotional. Perhaps you should look in the mirror...

Crickets on the rest of my post discussing the TA? Of course.

1. Yep E190 pay didn't go up much. Are you willing to trade other things to get that pay up? Like it or not, the industry pays based on aircraft type, and that specific type is already the highest E190 pay in the industry. To fix that would be awesome, but it would likely cost us in other areas. I'm an E190 guy, so sure, wouldn't it be cool to have more? Yep. But I'd rather the larger fleet get more, and improve in other areas too.

2. CS rates could improve, yes. But they are middle of the road, and not terrible. At least they are doing a blended rate for the non-flight hours versus paying CS100 for all with an override if you fly a CS300. That's what I was expecting.

3. I don't GAS about profit sharing. I would rather give it up entirely for higher guaranteed rates. It is codified now in the CBA, so it cannot be changed. Again, middle of the road. Not great, or terrible.

4. I wish the COLA were 1% more. If we vote this down, we will never regain the loss in money over that timeframe. This is a simple cost/benefit analysis here. That's not enough for my no vote.

5. Medical benefits aren't a driving factor for me, so that doesn't drive my personal vote yes or no.

All of the above are meh/middle of the road for me. (And we are discussing my vote here, so that's the lens we should look at this through.)

Now we can discuss the stuff that is a dramatic improvement.

1. Reserve is better, with long-call provisions guaranteeing use of it.
2. Pairing construction is far improved.
3. Scope is far better.
4. Instructor provisions are far better. (Way better)
5. This will codify our CBA and give us a place to improve from in 3.5 years.

So for me, it's a meh/cost of voting no to improve the pay sections won't be outweighed by the gains versus the improvements in the other areas. That equals a solid yes. The risk of downturn simply makes that calculation more confirmed for me.



So all that said, I hold no ill-will towards those who vote no. Their calculus is different. Good for them.

Back on topic.....

Anyone remember Reno Air? Moxy is the new Reno Air.

We've all been told that LGB isn't profitable. If the TA passes, what is to stop JB from closing LGB and giving all slots to Moxy? We transfer all assets back east and give the west away, albeit growing by 1 pilot per year?

GP

Does that benefit B6 more than flying the routes themselves? Not really.
But Yes, its possible for them to do it.
Will they do it? Who knows.
You limit what you think they will do, not everything that they can do.

I was completely wrong. We DO have a west coast plan finally. Big announcement today 7-2-2018 regarding SFO!

Care to share with the class?

It was in a Jet-to-the-point today from M. Elliot.