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321 xlr

Old 06-22-2019, 05:37 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Softpayman View Post
Yeah, better to have a plane sit 12 hours doing nothing and get a 90% on time vs the plane actually making money and having a 80% on time.

(What's a flagship long haul flight?? You must have this mistaken for the Concord and 1978).

Again look at how 757s get utilized. They don't sit for 12 hours. There aren't 757's sitting in Buenos Aires, Rio or Sao Paulo all day waiting for return flights. The 757's that UAL/AA/DAL use go to Europe from NY as well as head West to Denver/SFO during the day.
How do you not understand the difference between a 757 and an XLR? If one of Americans 757s gets stuck at an outstation, they can sub any other ETOPS 757. That's not true of an XLR. If it gets stuck in a wx groundstop or gets hours behind schedule, the XLR flight gets cancelled or runs hours late because they can't just sub another A321.

Not to mention, these will have 24-30 Mint seats with all aisle access and set up for premium long-haul... You gonna send that down on an MCO turn?
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:15 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
How do you not understand the difference between a 757 and an XLR? If one of Americans 757s gets stuck at an outstation, they can sub any other ETOPS 757. That's not true of an XLR. If it gets stuck in a wx groundstop or gets hours behind schedule, the XLR flight gets cancelled or runs hours late because they can't just sub another A321.

Not to mention, these will have 24-30 Mint seats with all aisle access and set up for premium long-haul... You gonna send that down on an MCO turn?
Not sure what you're saying here (meaning I'm open to learning something new) . I don't know anything about American but if I remember correctly; Continental had 757's with 255,000 LBs MTOW while United’s are only 240,000 so basically they can't use United's 757's to bail out any Europe mx cancellations.

Similarly, in the case of JB, you keep your spare XLR/LR doing BOS-MCO turns and if there's an issue you use it for Europe and replace that tail on the BOS-MCO route with your spare all-core 321. I don't see the difference.

Last edited by IrishNJ; 06-22-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:04 AM
  #113  
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The difference is making revenue.
With a low core, high mint seating configuration a quick “Florida turn” in the XLR/LR as a regular operation would make very little profit, if any compared to high-density 321’s.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:57 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by IrishNJ View Post
Not sure what you're saying here (meaning I'm open to learning something new) . I don't know anything about American but if I remember correctly; Continental had 757's with 255,000 LBs MTOW while United’s are only 240,000 so basically they can't use United's 757's to bail out any Europe mx cancellations.

Similarly, in the case of JB, you keep your spare XLR/LR doing BOS-MCO turns and if there's an issue you use it for Europe and replace that tail on the BOS-MCO route with your spare all-core 321. I don't see the difference.
My basic point is the XLR aircraft, unless JB has a 4th configuration just for South America, will be set up for European Mint. It will have 24-30 Mint lie-flat seats and a "revised Core Experience" (whatever that means). And because of its range capabilities, if it gets stuck in afternoon thunderstorms and groundstops in JFK/BOS, you cannot substitute any other A321 on the mission.

So the configuration is all wrong for a JFK/BOS turn and it puts the long-haul flights at risk. I don't see them doing that. Could be wrong obviously.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:31 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by IrishNJ View Post
Not sure what you're saying here (meaning I'm open to learning something new) . I don't know anything about American but if I remember correctly; Continental had 757's with 255,000 LBs MTOW while United’s are only 240,000 so basically they can't use United's 757's to bail out any Europe mx cancellations.

Similarly, in the case of JB, you keep your spare XLR/LR doing BOS-MCO turns and if there's an issue you use it for Europe and replace that tail on the BOS-MCO route with your spare all-core 321. I don't see the difference.

Seriously dude....how do you not understand the difference?!

Maybe cause you’re just a line pilot like the rest of us. Some like to pretend they know more than they actually do.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:11 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Your name here View Post
The difference is making revenue.
With a low core, high mint seating configuration a quick “Florida turn” in the XLR/LR as a regular operation would make very little profit, if any compared to high-density 321’s.
Literally every other airline with a first class product would disagree with you.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:44 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas View Post
Literally every other airline with a first class product would disagree with you.
A prem heavy (lie flat biz) config only works on some routes. Other airlines with a regular domestic first class have about as many total seats in their planes as all core JB planes with no first class due to JB’s greater seat pitch. JFK-MCO with a 140 seat premium heavy 321 is not the same as a 191/197 seat delta A321 with their domestic first. It’s kind of like AA’s A321T which has 102 seats (with 20 lie flat biz and 10 lie flat first) they use on a couple transcons from JFK. They just added it to BOS as well, and they actually run a JFK-BOS flight on that plane, but it’s for repo/sked purposes, not because there’s demand for lie flat on a 30 min flight. I can’t imagine they make much money on that flight.

That’s an extreme example, but I don’t see a < 3 hour NY-FL flight working in a Mint config.

I’ll also point out that at any given time there are a ton of DL widebodies sitting on the hard stand for hours at JFK. These intl planes don’t necessarily have to have the same utilization as any of the other planes in the network if they make up for the revenue when they are working.

But I have a feeling there will be a decent schedule to keep them moving, provide a buffer for delays/maint, and keep a much smoother Europe op than the domestic op. If you figure 7-8 hours block there, couple hours to turn/maint, 9 block back, couple hours to turn and do maint, that will be a 24 hour cycle with some buffer. I don’t see a need (or ability) to get much more utilization out of 6-9 hour plane.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:11 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by jamesholzhauer View Post
A prem heavy (lie flat biz) config only works on some routes. Other airlines with a regular domestic first class have about as many total seats in their planes as all core JB planes with no first class due to JB’s greater seat pitch. JFK-MCO with a 140 seat premium heavy 321 is not the same as a 191/197 seat delta A321 with their domestic first. It’s kind of like AA’s A321T which has 102 seats (with 20 lie flat biz and 10 lie flat first) they use on a couple transcons from JFK. They just added it to BOS as well, and they actually run a JFK-BOS flight on that plane, but it’s for repo/sked purposes, not because there’s demand for lie flat on a 30 min flight. I can’t imagine they make much money on that flight.

That’s an extreme example, but I don’t see a < 3 hour NY-FL flight working in a Mint config.

I’ll also point out that at any given time there are a ton of DL widebodies sitting on the hard stand for hours at JFK. These intl planes don’t necessarily have to have the same utilization as any of the other planes in the network if they make up for the revenue when they are working.

But I have a feeling there will be a decent schedule to keep them moving, provide a buffer for delays/maint, and keep a much smoother Europe op than the domestic op. If you figure 7-8 hours block there, couple hours to turn/maint, 9 block back, couple hours to turn and do maint, that will be a 24 hour cycle with some buffer. I don’t see a need (or ability) to get much more utilization out of 6-9 hour plane.
Ok, if we are talking about lie flat I see your point.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:54 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas View Post
Ok, if we are talking about lie flat I see your point.
It's not just lie-flat, it's 1/3 of the aircraft will be lie-flat. 140 seat A321, not a great Florida turn aircraft, in my opinion.

Plus the way it would cripple on-time for the long-haul flights...
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