System Bid
#81
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
We bid periods not hours. UAL, SWA, DAL etc bid periods.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,316
I’m confused about what the argument is here. One week of vacation generally gets me 3 weeks off in a month. With proper bidding between months, 4 weeks off is pretty easy to do. How is this not at the top of the industry? And what else are you looking for? One month off per vacation week?
#83
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
I’m confused about what the argument is here. One week of vacation generally gets me 3 weeks off in a month. With proper bidding between months, 4 weeks off is pretty easy to do. How is this not at the top of the industry? And what else are you looking for? One month off per vacation week?
#84
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,512
You can not overlook the 35 hours credit. Yes we bid vacation weeks but our schedules are built via credit.
We get more days off total with our vacation(especially the first 5 years) than other airlines, however we just have to take those days is 2-3 bigger chunks rather than 3-4 smaller ones.
If you prefer the 3-4 smaller ones fine, but the amount of days off is the same or more with our system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We get more days off total with our vacation(especially the first 5 years) than other airlines, however we just have to take those days is 2-3 bigger chunks rather than 3-4 smaller ones.
If you prefer the 3-4 smaller ones fine, but the amount of days off is the same or more with our system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
IOW the allocation in the CBA is the worst in the business.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Jetblue pilots have to live it to understand it.
The loss to market place allocation table of the almost 2,000 peak period slots will be felt next year. All of them will be gone in the first pass. Instead of pass two and three.
A few months ago a junior FO was so excited that he got summer vacation for the first time ever. He was, "see the CBA is great". It will be his last time ever. He just did not believe it when explained to him. I was, "bitter". No, its math!
He will have to live it first.
Just like health care. The change was sold and bought as no big deal.
Then it was.
We have to be 5 years behind the learning curve just to feel good about ourselves.
The loss to market place allocation table of the almost 2,000 peak period slots will be felt next year. All of them will be gone in the first pass. Instead of pass two and three.
A few months ago a junior FO was so excited that he got summer vacation for the first time ever. He was, "see the CBA is great". It will be his last time ever. He just did not believe it when explained to him. I was, "bitter". No, its math!
He will have to live it first.
Just like health care. The change was sold and bought as no big deal.
Then it was.
We have to be 5 years behind the learning curve just to feel good about ourselves.
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: fifi whisperer
Posts: 1,255
Jetblue pilots have to live it to understand it.
The loss to market place allocation table of the almost 2,000 peak period slots will be felt next year. All of them will be gone in the first pass. Instead of pass two and three.
A few months ago a junior FO was so excited that he got summer vacation for the first time ever. He was, "see the CBA is great". It will be his last time ever. He just did not believe it when explained to him. I was, "bitter". No, its math!
He will have to live it first.
Just like health care. The change was sold and bought as no big deal.
Then it was.
We have to be 5 years behind the learning curve just to feel good about ourselves.
The loss to market place allocation table of the almost 2,000 peak period slots will be felt next year. All of them will be gone in the first pass. Instead of pass two and three.
A few months ago a junior FO was so excited that he got summer vacation for the first time ever. He was, "see the CBA is great". It will be his last time ever. He just did not believe it when explained to him. I was, "bitter". No, its math!
He will have to live it first.
Just like health care. The change was sold and bought as no big deal.
Then it was.
We have to be 5 years behind the learning curve just to feel good about ourselves.
I don't understand the healthcare comment. Our healthcare sucks, I get that, but its always been bad. Are you saying we needed stronger language and a "Cadillac plan?"
not trying to be augmentative, just really don't understand.
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
You can not overlook the 35 hours credit. Yes we bid vacation weeks but our schedules are built via credit.
We get more days off total with our vacation(especially the first 5 years) than other airlines, however we just have to take those days is 2-3 bigger chunks rather than 3-4 smaller ones.
If you prefer the 3-4 smaller ones fine, but the amount of days off is the same or more with our system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We get more days off total with our vacation(especially the first 5 years) than other airlines, however we just have to take those days is 2-3 bigger chunks rather than 3-4 smaller ones.
If you prefer the 3-4 smaller ones fine, but the amount of days off is the same or more with our system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When a sensitivity analysis is performed in year DOS +1, +2, +3 the group loses time/days/credit to a market place allocation table. Ours is flat, others like UAL is steep. Very steep.
Plus Jetblue pilots are mostly commuters. Concentrated time off does not help. Every 12-19 year pilot I have spoken to would rather have more slots. Vacation every other month to ease the life of a commuter.
But we were surveyed about only wanting to keep 35 hours. Not the context of keeping it at the cost of fewer periods.
The NC did not explain to the pilot group OR the LEC that 35 hours would result in fewer slots and 1 round for 0-10 years of longevity and 1 1/2 for everyone else.
So we got a blended table and effectively no rounds for 1/2 the group.
A Frankenstein.
Last edited by BlueJetDork; 06-24-2019 at 04:42 AM.
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Super!
Trouble was the company like the NC only provided information that they wanted you to see. Not the entire picture.
Hence the pilot group has to live it, to learn. The hard way, again.
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