Training pay
 

So from what I’m aware is 2k a month but just had a couple questions. Is that before or after taxes? Also is this pay until you finish OE? If so how long is the delay for OE right now? Thanks again any info I’d appreciated

LOE or 45 days whichever is first. And its 2k before taxes.

2k is pretax…woof. It lasts 6 weeks, then it goes to training pay which is 80 hours at $94/hour. OE wait times vary by airframe and base. 220 Boston had little wait recently and 320 JFK over 6 weeks.

awesome thanks for the info

Training pay is BS and one of the reasons I voted no to our CBA (as a 9 year CA at the time). This crap needs to disappear with CBA2 or the JCBA

yea man I’ll be honest this is pretty bad. Regionals aren’t even this bad

It’s only for 6 weeks, regardless of how long training takes. And during that six weeks (and the entirety of your training), you are provided a hotel room in the company lodge, and three meals a day in the company cafeteria.

It’s true those first three paychecks are paltry ($2000/mo pretax means semimonthly net pay of about $685)! But it is made up for on day 46, when you start earning $95/hr x 80 hrs/month. That’s 150% what I made at my regional... and second year pay will be double what I made there.

What you made at your regional is sort of meaningless. People get hung up on those numbers from decades ago and think they somehow should still apply. What is the pay at regional now, today? (Honest question.)

My understanding is that the pay is comparable to Jetblue, only at some regionals you have better movement, no redeyes, and flow to a real airline with good pay, profit sharing, and wide bodies, and more importantly, a pilot group that values itself.

It's not "made up for" later. It's appalling and industry trailing. You shouldn't be celebrating it because it's more than you made at your regional.

You’re right, you should leave.

I think he already did.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. I think Potato left B6 for DAL. With that viewpoint I trust him to have a lot more info than what the typical B6 "battered wife" has to say.

Most of this is wrong it’s 80 hours after your finish LOE after 45 days it’s 70 hours per the MOU. I know it’s not 80 hours after 45 days for sure (unless you finish LOE)

I can get on JB for a lot of things, but this isn’t necessarily one of them. Compared to other airlines, this was more or less on par. As far as comparing to a regional, gtfoh with that nonsense. Stay at your regional then. Of course, times are quickly changing, so JB will have to step up their game if they expect to keep up with the airlines they’re competing with. Robin wants an expedited integration of 12-18 months. Our Union has a ton of leverage to fix a lot of things in the upcoming JCBA. Hopefully we don’t squander this opportunity.

The regionals are on par with B6 now if you account for bonuses. I have been here a very long time unfortunately, and am too old for it to make sense to leave. That being said, if I were a 20 something with an offer from B6 and an offer from Envoy, I'd have to think really hard about it.

Like it or not, that is where we stand now.

NK new hires would kill for this. Food? What’s that?

I thought the regional stuff was only temporarily to stop them from jumping ship and saying for the flow. It’s nice If your there at envoy or can make a lateral move but when the bonus ends you are better off at b6


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I'm not so sure. With our current seniority stagnation and potential for shrinkage if retention isn't fixed a new hire here could be on short call working weekend redeyes for a very long time. At least at Envoy you get some TPIC and QOL improves with time.

I flew with a guy that was at express jet for 19 years. Good luck with your plan

And my current sim partner did 15 at Endeavor, living in base, bidding LCR, flying 250 hours a year.
Home an average of 23 days a month, raising his kids, making enough money.
What’s your point? Different strokes and all that.
Yeah, eventually the mainline job is better, but everyone’s situation is different.

Yep, I do that here and fly 160. Every time I go to work it feels like I’m starting a new job. Makes line checks fun.

<company to new hires>
"You are here because you were hand-selected for your outstanding qualifications and attributes which made you rise to the top of a pool of thousands of applicants."

<also company>
"Here's just enough money so you don't starve during the first 2 months you're on property."

I think you missed the "with a flow" part of my argument. If you go to Envoy, you make more or less what a B6 pilot makes, enjoy seniority movement and will eventually be a pilot at AA guaranteed.

Ask some regional guys how many of them have their apps in here. You will get a very polite answer.

Crazy times we’re in. Pilots can go anywhere they want. 23-24 years olds getting picked up by a legacy is becoming the norm rather than the exception.

It is not the norm. The average age of a new hire at DL this year, who has been hiring 200/month and has put 1500 pilots on property, is 33. In my class of 48 we had one 24 year old.
Hardly the norm.

And neither can pilots go anywhere they want…. Hyperbole.

That’s fine, they should do what’s best for them. I remember AE having a flow in the early 2000’s. They got stuck at eagle. That’s why I’ve always been skeptical. Airlines hire till they furlough. To each his own.

The former may be a little exaggerated, the latter is not. Pilots can punch their own ticket. Unless they have glaring personality issues or show up unprepared. Heck, they hired you didn’t they? 😅

If you spent money in training on food that’s your choice and not required. The daily allowance is enough to cover you.


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the training pay is pathetic let’s be real.

You do realize people have families? Or are you that singleminded?

It’s something they look at now for hiring criteria…the MEC insists.

Is this something they are looking at changing? This is a big factor in people deciding to even come here.

Career progression and base structure are big factors when deciding to come here. Training pay for 6 weeks is not. Gmafb.

Training pay and uniform shortages probably don’t rate very high on the list when deciding on an airline.

However, they probably play a factor when you’ve been here two months and you get a call from Delta.

well in terms of career progression, delta does have better career progression right now on multiple aircraft so what’s your point.

Training pay sucks the fun out of getting a new job. It’s bad for morale.

Airline contracts are like big cargo ships. They have momentum and take quite a while to turn around, especially now that you have a CBA. For decades, pilots were so ecstatic to get hired by a major that they accepted what is now considered substandard.

Delta didn't pay for hotels during training in ATL (everyone's first base on paper) until the last hiring boom.

AA used to charge new pilots to JS on their own airline even to go to/from work if there was a seat available in back until like 6yr pay.

United used to pull a pilots out of CASS (JS access) if they went on mil leave over 30 days requiring some reservists I served with to use buddy passes to get home after serving in the desert and then drilling away from their base.

Heck, regional pilots used to "pay to play" ie bankroll their own new hiring training to get the first job.

I know all these facts seem atrocious and preposterous by todays standards, but when the industry has a glut of labor and lack of demand the situation can get ugly, quickly.

Bottom line is over the last decade these policies have all gone the way of the dodo and hopefully with enough pressure JB will change training pay to a more reasonable amount.

Class date of 11/2. Was wondering about the 3 meals a day provided. Is that provided for free, or available for you to purchase? Trying to plan financially for the training pay. Thanks!

At the Lodge you get like 28ish bucks a day on file to spend how you see fit. The meals are set up to equal that amount. Im not a breakfast guy so usually spent extra on candy drinks jerky snacks etc. Or grab a pizza or salad or something