LOA 22 – Voluntary Early Separation Program
 

How many are they expecting to take the VESP?

It makes sense for pilots who have less than two years left. For those with more time left, they may not want to leave that much money on the table.

I think there will be more takers than people think. There’s no way to know how you’d feel about it if you aren’t in that age range. And like any time a contract vote comes out, the overwhelmingly voiced opinion is “No” and then the thing ends up passing. Saying “No” to the company is just the more popular thing to type online until it comes down to making a real decision.

Apples to oranges don’t you think?

A pilot voting “no” to a contract TA knowing that it’s only 1 out of 5,000 votes is totally different than voluntarily deciding to separate from the company. Having to decide in the next few weeks to give up all their seniority, vacation etc….is a big decision and there aren’t other votes that will cancel out your vote.

Out of the 600+ that are eligible, how many are commuters, that are dissatisfied with their schedule and have other ways to make an income?

Senior pilots, pilots who live in base, or don't have good exit options are obviously going to stay. But a I bet a decent number of older commuters can get a corporate or part-time job in their hometown and use the lump sum to offset the pay cut.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 100+ take it.

No, I meant that there’s a perception by people who aren’t even eligible that this isn’t a good deal and no one will take it. I think people who are eligible are having a hard look at it. I was comparing the response I’ve seen to this LOA to every contract ever. A lot of “this sucks, totally underwhelming” and yet I think many will take it. I personally know of 4 who are leaning towards taking it.

Again that’s totally different than what you said about a contract vote and how the most vocal people are no votes. Those people actually have a vote. If some mid-30’s FO on the PotatoFarm thinks it’s a bad deal…. who cares, he doesn’t have a say. Might as well as Gary Leff from View From the Wing what he thinks of it.

I’m literally everything you said with the exception of being 54.
Commuter. Dissatisfied. Corporate offer on the table.
The 18 months severance would mitigate the first year of corporate until the end of year corporate bonus kicks in. Or if big oil gets in trouble here in TX and starts laying off pilots. Gulfstream 650. Start on G280. I’d take it if they dropped the age.

My only point is there are a lot of posts saying they doubt many will take it. Look at the guesses on this site. I think there will be more than seems to be expected. That’s it.

Not to mention it’s early enough in the year to dump some of that money into real estate investments, qualify as a real estate professional, and write off most of the federal income taxes on it.

Add all the money from VPTO/PTO + 17%, and you’re paying minimal Medicare/Social Security as well—because you’re basically shifting the next 18 months of income plus ALL of your PTO/VPTO bank into ONE tax year.

I think it’s a no brainer for two groups of people:

1) People around 59-60 who live near legacy bases or want to do NetJets until they’re 80

2) People with less than 36 months left and mostly full PTO/VPTO banks

I’m with you…commuter, quite dissatisfied with how QOL has become. If they’re incredibly Fat on CA’s why not entice those of us who aren’t 60. Heck offer any CA with 10 YOS or more even 12 months pay to leave. I’d be gone in a heartbeat. Let someone who wants to be here keep a CA seat instead of someone who’s golden handcuffed into staying and unhappy.

A 40yr old CA has 25yrs of servitude left at JB. That’s a lot of work the company can squeeze out of you during that time. A 59yr old has 6yrs left of work, less to squeeze there.

The company knows very very few CAs will leave to start over somewhere else, regardless of age.

That might be why they have trouble enticing. Being as fat on CAs as we are....If you can drop all the trips you want, (green days and/or eveyone willing to pick up whatever I drop). Why bail early? Just bid more VILs when I want etc.....

Of course...a year from now this might be much different. No CA VILS.....no ability to really drop or trade much.

I posed the question to leadership. Why not 55yr olds? The answer I got back was dropping the age below 59 substantially increases eligible FOs, thus defeating the purpose of eliminating CAs.

I did 5 VILs in 2024. Including DEC. it was glorious. And you know, sometimes FOs make errors and accidentally apply landing credits to the CA to continue VIL eligibility . It’s an error prone world.

Absolutely hysterical. Thanks for the laugh, the hoops one has to jump through in order to get 2 consecutive months of VIL in a row is truly mind numbing especially with no open time. Gotta make sure those 3 landings are in after the 15th, but ALAS! We open the VIL bids on the 14th close on the 18th and crew trac landings update at the end of the month! “Insert back and forth email chain with OSC records and Crew planning for incorrectly denied VIL award”

It amazes me they’re so worried about saving money that they trip over themselves tasking a handful of crew planners to go line by line through hundreds of pilots who requested VIL and make sure they won’t lose landing currency. God forbid they go to OSC and log 3 bounces.

It’s why I don’t have buy in on the whole we are up **** creek narrative. If they were that concerned they’d award the leave lines and not worry about landings.

On the other side of it, I lost a VIL because the FO legitimately forgot to put one in. He was running to commute. I get it. Despite my claims that I made the last landing and had 3 on the trip, ACARS is the sole source of accuracy in that regard. No ACARS no credit.

You can always email training records. I’ve had FOs forget to log mine, get dequal emails, I email them the flights I have logged TO/LDGs in my logbook, and they take care of it. I haven’t had to fight VIL denials yet though.

I’m confused. You block in, you’re sitting right next to the guy, and it’s important to you…

Do you guys not interact with your FO’s?

ACARS is not the sole source. You can email training records and proivide your last 3 landings so they can update your record accordingly.

I trust him/her to do the job they were trained to do. So I don’t helicopter parent while they type in the ACARS sitting at the gate. Last I checked the FCOM did t say cross Check and verify administrative tasks with engines shut down at the gate. So I do other CA stuff. Like shutting down the APU after the rampers take 15 minutes to supply ground power. So while the FO is in the box I’m on the ops frequency asking for ground power.

Never really looked on the Bus, but on the 190 I used to just shut it down once the pax were off and leave the plane dark, which also includes the cargo hold lights. Amazing how fast they start screaming and plug it in when they can’t see anything in there.

I wouldnt be to quick to blame the fo's. Several times I would get landing currency emails. When I knew for a fact that I had entered the landings into ACARS.
I brought it up a couple of times that the ACARS doesn't seem to accurately capture the information all the time, but it ultimately fell on deaf ears.

Exactly. Maybe once the VIL awards are published it's too late; but if you're close on currency, it's not a bad idea to email them and check your eligiblity before the bid closes.

I don’t blame them at all. Simple error. No big deal. Hey gimme credit for a raw data DME Arc to the VOR would ya?😂

unless the error is only caught after VILs awarded. Yes, I emailed records. No, they wouldn’t reverse it. There’s sort of a black hole timeframe where’s there’s no time to fix. In reality 75 hours pay without flying was better than 50 without flying. So all good.

My favorite 2020 strategy…..8 months full paid vacation with 6 logged landings, all simulated.

I should have said ACARS is the tip of the spear. And the assumed method. Without me having to do actual work and all. Having a job is interfering with my lifestyle…

For a ten year guy in the 320 CA seat in JFK meandering on reserve, there’s no chance of this vacation ever happening again…well, never say never.

42 takers so far