The Funny Thing About Options
03-29-2005, 06:18 AM
#1
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The Funny Thing About Options
I know pilots that are ambivlent about benefits cuts because they think it will help their options in the end.
Keep in mind these are cuts at the airline with the lowest costs in the industry so none of us knows where we're headed with this or if the stock price will ever provide a return that justifies our PERSONAL costs.
If you asked an insider whether he's for or against a particular cut in pay or benefits what do you think his answer would be? "Cut it" every time.
According to the latest BluePrint, we apply the values equally between our shareholders and our crewmembers. That's nice but I can think of only one value that most shareholders (the real players) live by and it's not on our list.
I'm not going to let, what is now, a worthless piece of paper distract me from the importance of base pay, retirement, and health care. Those are core issues for crewmembers in THIS company. The shareholders who are actually making money on this company can fend for themselves. I'm not a "player", I'm a worker. If I was a player, I wouldn't be working trying pay medical bills, a mortgage, college tuition, and maybe collect a little for my retirement. We can't ALL be entrepreneurs. Those of us who decide to work for a living have GOT to stop getting the wool pulled over our eyes.
Keep in mind these are cuts at the airline with the lowest costs in the industry so none of us knows where we're headed with this or if the stock price will ever provide a return that justifies our PERSONAL costs.
If you asked an insider whether he's for or against a particular cut in pay or benefits what do you think his answer would be? "Cut it" every time.
According to the latest BluePrint, we apply the values equally between our shareholders and our crewmembers. That's nice but I can think of only one value that most shareholders (the real players) live by and it's not on our list.
I'm not going to let, what is now, a worthless piece of paper distract me from the importance of base pay, retirement, and health care. Those are core issues for crewmembers in THIS company. The shareholders who are actually making money on this company can fend for themselves. I'm not a "player", I'm a worker. If I was a player, I wouldn't be working trying pay medical bills, a mortgage, college tuition, and maybe collect a little for my retirement. We can't ALL be entrepreneurs. Those of us who decide to work for a living have GOT to stop getting the wool pulled over our eyes.
04-02-2005, 12:37 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by jblumindtrick
Base pay is not important.
Retirement is not important.
Medical Benefits are not important.
You should just be happy to have a J-O-B with C.S.P.P. and I.S.O. There are 8,000 applications on line for JetBlue! You can be outsourced. For now, let's just "enjoy this compressed economy."
Retirement is not important.
Medical Benefits are not important.
You should just be happy to have a J-O-B with C.S.P.P. and I.S.O. There are 8,000 applications on line for JetBlue! You can be outsourced. For now, let's just "enjoy this compressed economy."
Yup,
CSPP, which should be a long term investment is now a short term one cause you don't dare hold on to the shares as the price will go down....
ISO, underwater for almost 80% of the company. $18.50 per share makes it a great deal for the pre IPO guys to buy and hold with miminal AMT, but the "benefit" of the options is worthless to almost everyone right now. I just hope the stock price go someplace other than down so the actually become worth something.
Quote at the bottom, Isn't Al a great motivator in his speaches?
FNG
04-05-2005, 10:55 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by jblumindtrick
That quote comes from Neeleman. When the investors ask him if he is going to raise pilot wages he replies with, "No, not that I know of, for now we are enjoying a compressed economy".
At Southwest the same question was asked but at least the response was," No, we know our pilots are worth more but we try and pay them what we can."
Interesting......different attitudes on the exact same question.
At Southwest the same question was asked but at least the response was," No, we know our pilots are worth more but we try and pay them what we can."
Interesting......different attitudes on the exact same question.
Look at this weekends explosion (actually, implosion would be better). If there are 8000 apps on file, then hire more of these guys to give us more reserves for the IROPS.
Plus, as an aside, in some discussions with many of the more senior pilots recently, I have found more and more guys don't volunteer to help out during IROPS and screen their calls. The motivations is going away and quickly I am afraid. You more that likely will get screwed one way or another if you come into help. (less days off, no JA pay, no real compensation) or you have to fight to get it, if you get it. It is becoming a big burdon to come in for IROPS. Not to mention, bases like JFK are mainly made up of commuters and even if guys wanted to come in, they can't get there during an IROP. To a lot of us, there is no real "extra compensation" to do so. Why come in on your days off to get paid for less that 5 hours a day. Crew services use to do some good deals for guys to help out (pay protect origional trips and pay the new one also, Ive seen it done!). Maybe by the book they shouldn't have, but it brought out lots of guys to help. Now they use the book to reflow your schedule and you end up working more days for the same pay, or only a few hours more. The compensation to help out during IROPS has made it not worth the effort.
However, if you live where based (the few at JFK, those in LGB, FLL or live at a JB city), it can be a gold mine. JA pay, paid to fly from home, extra deadhead legs added in, credit for deadhead legs to position you there, etc). You can pickup an extra 10, 20 even 30 hours in just a day or two, not counting the pay protected trips you get out of for timing out or being illegal later in the week or at the end of the month. So for these guys IROPS are a gold mine. Good for them, but for the aveage pilot it's not.
This weekend there were 20-40 pilots who were sick (I don't know the exact number). This directly indicates that the caring value is going away. Why do guys call in sick, either they are really sick and they should, or the call in to try to get the time off they have earned and deserve but can't because of insuffient reserves. It all boils down to the fact that when management doesn't take care of us, then in the motivations goes away and we get what happened this weekend.
Just my opinion...
FNG
04-14-2005, 10:35 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 202
All customer and employee care!
My wife worked in reservations at Jetblue and anyone and everyone in there had a story of how nothing was as it seemed. From the top of lower management down everyone had a story of being told one thing and being treated with another. It sounds as if it continues up the line.
04-25-2005, 02:13 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 157
Option white paper
I have quickly reviewed the white paper and it is a great historical document about options. But here is what I get out of it.
1. Yes, JB will have to expense them when they are exercised (that is the way I read it), so it is to JB's benefit to keep the options under water so that we never exercise them and they don't have to expense them.
2. Only the Pre IPO guys will ever make any money in in the options.
3. The company doesn't plan to do anything to fix the current problem. Yes they can cancel them and reissue them at a new strike price that puts the options above water, but then we might exercise them and then JB would have to expense them. Net result is They won't do anything to fix them. (it is my understanding that SWA fixed their pilot stock options in their newest contract to bring their pilots options above water)
I can see that if our stock ever recovers enough to get our options above water you can expect a massive exodus from options as eveyone tries to get something out of them before the stock goes down again.
Just another example of the values being used only when it suites them. The care only when it helps them, not us.
Just my opinion....
FNG
1. Yes, JB will have to expense them when they are exercised (that is the way I read it), so it is to JB's benefit to keep the options under water so that we never exercise them and they don't have to expense them.
2. Only the Pre IPO guys will ever make any money in in the options.
3. The company doesn't plan to do anything to fix the current problem. Yes they can cancel them and reissue them at a new strike price that puts the options above water, but then we might exercise them and then JB would have to expense them. Net result is They won't do anything to fix them. (it is my understanding that SWA fixed their pilot stock options in their newest contract to bring their pilots options above water)
I can see that if our stock ever recovers enough to get our options above water you can expect a massive exodus from options as eveyone tries to get something out of them before the stock goes down again.
Just another example of the values being used only when it suites them. The care only when it helps them, not us.
Just my opinion....
FNG
04-26-2005, 05:03 AM
#7
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Posts: n/a
Here's the real kicker.
Now that options are on the income statement - this White Paper has been written to declare in clear language that options are an EXPENSE.
In other words:
It is a cost that we incur as one more offset to base pay.
Our base pay is what it is because we have all of these other enhancements - so declared in White Paper #1.
Now that the federal government has mandated expensing of options - it will make the argument against raises that much stronger.
I say we give all the options back in return for closing the gap on hourly pay with Southwest by even a third.
-R
Now that options are on the income statement - this White Paper has been written to declare in clear language that options are an EXPENSE.
In other words:
It is a cost that we incur as one more offset to base pay.
Our base pay is what it is because we have all of these other enhancements - so declared in White Paper #1.
Now that the federal government has mandated expensing of options - it will make the argument against raises that much stronger.
I say we give all the options back in return for closing the gap on hourly pay with Southwest by even a third.
-R
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