|
Originally Posted by dckozak
I guess I'm confused:rolleyes: Are you or are you not an ALPA member:D
If you think your present salary is fair considering the profitability of your company, so be it, put it in a contract. You wouldn't buy a house without negotiating the price, or probably a car, why would you do any less with your career. Good luck:) It is in my contract. |
Originally Posted by banger
Was(active ALPA member at Legacy carrier) Am(furloughed non-active ALPA member).
It is in my contract. Do you think you could publish a link to your "contract" so we can all see it??:D |
Originally Posted by dckozak
I'm am totally sorry, I though you guy's didn't have a contract. I didn't realize you (were) negotiating your terms, my mistake.:rolleyes:
Do you think you could publish a link to your "contract" so we can all see it??:D |
Originally Posted by JayDub
Kozak,
First and foremost go to this link and look to see what "profit" you are talking about.http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...sp?Symbol=JBLU You'll see tough times are hitting everyone. Secondly, please, please find someone from CCAir (now at Mesa most probably). They negotiated a TA and the MEC chairman went to DC to present it to D.W (in 2001 I believe). D.W. met him at the door, took the paper out of his hands and went directly to the trash can and put it in there. CCair was subsequently shut down and all pilots were allowed to merge into Mesa, after quite a few months of uncertainty. Trans Sates Airlines had to ask their Washington appointed "advisors" to leave the room at one point during their negotiations in 2000. You can ask any of those reps. exactly why; a lot of them are here at JB now. As far as I can tell, your biggest beef with JetBlue is based on a lot of misconceptions. You think we are going to be profitable for this year (we are not expected to be as you can tell), you think we are compensated in stock that we can not cash in (which is totally false), you think we get less time off then you (again, total B.S.), but a lot of other half-truths you spout off which have time and again been pointed out to be false, but you just plow right ahead any how. Look at the (not-so) warm reception we get on these message boards. Do you think ALPA would welcome us with cake and punch like CAL and FedEx or would they treat us more like TSA, MESA, Comair, etc.? A whole lot of co-workers of mine worked for places where they weren't treated like you are by the folks in Herndon, and expect more of the same in the future. To many of us at JetBlue, they way we are referred to on these message boards is a clear indication of how we will be treated if we ever joined that group based in Herndon. I am in no way in a position to speak for my pilot group, but I truly believe that if we ever choose to be represented, we will choose an in-house union. For a clear example why, look at your inevitable response. You will miss my point, and just fire the party line and not look into what I need to help me with my job. Instead, you’ll continue to spout off what you need to get a bigger pay check. Until the issue of representation turns to what benefits our pilot group can expect instead of what we need to do for you, don't expect us to jump on your band wagon any time soon. Respectfully, JayDub If any pilot group is unhappy with the help they receive from DC (ALPA) they have two options, 1. Tell ALPA Washington to go to hell and put their TA before its membership, 2. Dump ALPA and replace with other/no representation that better suits the needs of its membership. ALPA's support staff (read: support) is there to help, not decide what is or is not acceptable to the membership. Its up to the membership to decide what they (based on their company's ability/willingness to pay) are going to settle for in a contract with their respective employer. Regarding my "half truths" . I have never suggested I knew how many days you work (a month or otherwise) I truthfully don't know. I can only summarize you fly about as much (hard time) any as anyone else and probably work as many, possibly a little less (days) to do so. I guess if you got the FAA exemption you all were petitioning for you would work less days for the same hours.;) Regarding the stock sell (the right to sell or not) that I heard from a college who's brother is one of your senior captains, if that is not correct or was and is no long true, I stand corrected. Also far as other half truths, I take my info regarding your pay and benefits from this website. If your pay or retirement (or lack there of) is posted incorrectly, I suggest to advise the web master to make the appropriate adjustments. You are totally wrong on this one. You would be accepted with open arms by ALPA or what ever group you affiliate with. Even if you do in house you will receive no grief from the majority of ALPA, SWA, IPA or AA pilots who post here. We all need you on board, and not just for issues related to your pay. Legislative, safety, and a whole host of issues affecting all of us, we need a unified voice and your (colleagues) support. I think you should read my posts a little closer. The only thing you can do for me is take control of YOUR DESTINEY. You have only a peripheral affect on my pay and benefits. Granted, we can't go to (my) employer and use you to justify a pay raise. I truly hope someday (soon rather than later) that you can boast the way the SWA guy's are now about how great JB is are for more than just the quick upgrades and aft cabin colleagues:eek: PS Merry Christmas |
Originally Posted by banger
I am not aware of the contract being online anywhere. Each pilot has a paper copy.
|
Originally Posted by dckozak
I wonder if your "paper" contract is similar to the one the Fedex pilots had with their employer prior to unionizing. Would it stand up in court if you choose to grieve it. Do you even have a proper grievance process??:rolleyes:
|
Originally Posted by dckozak
I was hoping in interject these comments between your paragraphs but that is beyond the scope of my (current) ability. DK
Regarding my "half truths" . I have never suggested I knew how many days you work (a month or otherwise) I truthfully don't know. I can only summarize you fly about as much (hard time) any as anyone else and probably work as many, possibly a little less (days) to do so. I guess if you got the FAA exemption you all were petitioning for you would work less days for the same hours.;) Regarding the stock sell (the right to sell or not) that I heard from a college who's brother is one of your senior captains, if that is not correct or was and is no long true, I stand corrected. Also far as other half truths, I take my info regarding your pay and benefits from this website. If your pay or retirement (or lack there of) is posted incorrectly, I suggest to advise the web master to make the appropriate adjustments. PS Merry Christmas For the record, I save all my vacation time and take it at the end of the year. I haven't flown an airplane since November 11th, and don't plan to until January 9th. I usually bid a redeye filled schedule that gets me in the neighborhood of 18-20 nights at home a month with a little over 80 hours a month. As you well know, a lot is riding on seniority, but all the same, I am home a whole lot. In any case, that is at least as competitive as anyone I know. As far as the pay scales on the website, they are a little mis-leading. The pay calculator doesn't take into account getting 1 1/2 times pay for everything over 70 hours. Look at your pay and imagine you got 1 1/2 times for everything over 70 hours. That would be a significant increase, wouldn't it? And you wouldn't work any more than you ordinarily do any how. In addition we have to crew our aircraft a little fatter than most airlines since we fly quite a few redeyes. The last I knew, our requirement was right around 12 airmen per a/c (any one with more current info is more than welcome to chime in). Most airlines I am aware of run 10.5-11 per. Every pilot currently at JetBlue had their options vest on December 9th. The current system for options is changing and I am not real sure how that will work. However, we had a vesting schedule where our options vested over a seven year period and expired at the end of 10. This is a standard way of doing options, but a totally different system than what companies like Enron had that got their workers into so much trouble. We don't "buy" stock that we have to hold onto that our executives can sell. Just the facts. Merry Christmas to you as well, and thank you. Respectfully, JayDub |
From BRANDWEEK.COM November 1st, 2005
http://www.brandweek.com/bw/news/spo..._id=1001393358 "Lastly, the beleaguered airlines continue to suffer from high-flying consumer expectations and depressed market conditions. Ticket prices remain low as services have eroded, with most major carriers taking the no-frills route amid bankruptcy filings at Northwest and Delta. Few airlines are held in high regard by consumers, but low-cost JetBlue Airways (at No. 75) wins in the loyalty quest because, as Passikoff noted, the others “will give you a seat and not much else.”" 2005 Loyalty Leaders / 2004 Rank 1. Google.com 1 2. Avis 2 3. Yahoo.com 9 4. Treo NR 5. Samsung mobile phone 5 6. BlackBerry NR 7. Verizon long distance 3 8. Canon office copier 8 9. Miller Genuine Draft 10 10. Marriott Hotels 14 11. KeySpan Energy 4 12. Hyatt Hotels 6 13. Coors 20 14. Sprint long distance 7 15. Ritz-Carlton Hotels 11 16. Amazon.com 13 17. Swissôtel 15 18. Diet Pepsi 17 19. Target 54 20. Sony television NR 21. PSE&G 12 22. Netscape.com 21 23. Motorola mobile phone 19 24. L.L.Bean catalog 24 25. Inter-Continental Hotels 32 26. Hilton Hotels 46 27. Discover Card 16 28. Budweiser 18 29. Wal-Mart 25 30. TDWaterhouse.com 82 31. Sony Ericsson mobile phone 22 32. Sony DVD players NR 33. Radisson 30 34. Nextel mobile phone 80 35. New Balance athletic shoe 27 36. Capital One credit card 23 37. Adidas athletic shoe 40 38. Toshiba television NR 39. Toshiba DVD player NR 40. Skechers 26 41. Schwab.com 35 42. SBC long distance 81 43. Samsung DVD players NR 44. Xerox office copier 68 45. Verizon Wireless 34 46. UPS 95 47. Samsung television NR 48. Miller Lite 28 49. J. Crew catalog 42 50. IBM computers 126 51. HotBot.com 47 52. Excite.com 45 53. Etrade.com 41 54. Diet Coke 36 55. Coors Light 86 56. Cingular Wireless 104 57. Budget Rent A Car 84 58. BP gasoline 31 59. Apple computers 83 60. AltaVista.com 50 61. Wyndham Hotels 67 62. Westin Hotels 44 63. Sheraton Hotels 58 64. Sears catalog 33 65. Sears store 57 66. Sanyo mobile phone 48 67. RCA television NR 68. Pepsi 53 69. Panasonic DVD players NR 70. Nokia mobile phone 61 71. MSN.com 49 72. Mobil gasoline 37 73. MCI long distance 62 74. Land's End catalog 59 75. JetBlue Airways 55 76. Hertz 98 77. FedEx 43 78. BarnesandNoble.com 77 79. AOL.com 72 80. Ameritrade.com 64 81. Today (NBC) 69 82. T- Mobile Wireless 38 83. Southwest Airlines 74 84. Putnam 160 85. NFL 70 86. Lycos.com 66 87. JVC television NR 88. Hampton Inn Holels 60 89. Good Morning America (ABC) 132 90. BellSouth long distance 39 91. Texaco gasoline 87 92. Subway 85 93. Sprint PCS Wireless 52 94. Qwest long distance 93 95. Poland Spring 88 96. Outback restaurant NR 97. JC Penney 90 98. Janus Mutual Fund 172 99. Holiday Inn Hotels 63 100. Gateway computers 97 I am not slamming anyone by this post but some of you Legacy guys may want to look at some other reasons for the state of your company. When is last time you stood in the cockpit doorway and greeted your customers? The last time you stood in front of them to do your welcome aboard announcement? The last time you helped someone all the way to baggage claim. I know, corny ain't it? But I know our customers appreciate it and all the other little things we do. You may think you are in the airline business but rest assured, you are in the customer service business. |
Originally Posted by banger
Although I was hired at FedEx, I never took the job and didn't get a contract. Would it stand up in court? I don't know, its a legal contract but who knows in todays legal system. What is "proper" grievance process?? We have a grievance process that worked pretty well in the 2 cases I was privy to hearing about.
If you win, did you win because of the merits of your case or because management wanted to show (you) how they can side against themselves when the stakes are low. Any system where the prosecutor and judge are one and the same is inherently questionable to the reason for its verdicts. Think about it, will your grievance process even address issues of compensation?? I don't know, but I would guess you have limited rights of appeal and even those are just to a higher level of management. Unless you can be heard before a neural arbitrator you will never be truly free for second guessing regarding the merits of (a grieved) out come.:cool: |
Originally Posted by JayDub
For the record, I save all my vacation time and take it at the end of the year. I haven't flown an airplane since November 11th, and don't plan to until January 9th. I usually bid a redeye filled schedule that gets me in the neighborhood of 18-20 nights at home a month with a little over 80 hours a month. As you well know, a lot is riding on seniority, but all the same, I am home a whole lot. In any case, that is at least as competitive as anyone I know.
As far as the pay scales on the website, they are a little mis-leading. The pay calculator doesn't take into account getting 1 1/2 times pay for everything over 70 hours. Look at your pay and imagine you got 1 1/2 times for everything over 70 hours. That would be a significant increase, wouldn't it? And you wouldn't work any more than you ordinarily do any how. In addition we have to crew our aircraft a little fatter than most airlines since we fly quite a few redeyes. The last I knew, our requirement was right around 12 airmen per a/c (any one with more current info is more than welcome to chime in). Most airlines I am aware of run 10.5-11 per. Just the facts. Merry Christmas to you as well, and thank you. Respectfully, JayDub Regarding your 150% for flying over 70 hours, I would concede it is a good deal, depending on how hard it is to get to that point and how achievable it is. Over time is a great deal for everyone. You get to make extra money on your days off, getting to choose between work and (less) time with your family. Likewise your employer gets to increase the productively of its crew force, allowing it it cover more flying for the same cost for fixed benefits like health care. Its also great when you do go ask for a raise because they (Mgt) can wave your W-2's at you and tell you how great your already paid (see post from the 4 year FO somewhere on this forum):D If you run the competition out of business, I doubt it will be because of your in-flight announcements or willingness to push an occasional wheelchair. I would agree that service levels at the majors is in need of an upgrade, but I think your passengers are there more for price than anything else (including the TV's):D Best of luck over the holidays and coming back in Jan. I'll be lurking around JFK all month, see you around :eek: |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:23 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands