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JetBlue FA fired?
I read the attached article on another Internet Aviation Forum (Clear-and-a-million.com) and sought to verify its authenticity by searching for the original. Alas, the only other mention I could turn up with Google was on the Queen of Sky Blogsite. Can anyone "in the know" shed some light on the situation?
JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue Long Beach, CA, March 23--JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period. The company accused her of sleeping on the job. She maintains that she was not, although she said she had tried to get herself and her crew released from the flight due to fatigue. On February 17, Livingston, 35, was lead flight attendant of a four-member cabin crew that was to work a red-eye flight from Long Beach, CA, to Fort Lauderdale, FL, and back the next morning without a break. They were scheduled to report to the airport at 8:20pm and take off at 9:20pm. The flight was delayed two and a half hours, and didn't leave until 11:30pm. During the flight, Livingston told the pilots to call the cabin crew in fatigued, as they were too tired to work the return flight back to Long Beach Airport, which would now put them over the FAA maximum 14-hour duty day. When they landed in Fort Lauderdale, an In-flight supervisor met the plane and informed Livingston and her crew that there were no hotel rooms available in Fort Lauderdale, and that they would have to fly them all the way to New York’s JFK airport to get a hotel room if they refused to continue the trip. The supervisor also told Livingston that the return flight to Long Beach would have to cancel unless she and her crew agreed to work it. Livingston’s crewmembers then decided to change their minds and work the return flight back to Long Beach. “At this point I felt pressured to work the flight back, too,” Livingston said. “The supervisor intimidated me by telling me that they would have to cancel the flight if we didn’t work it. Plus, she didn’t seem to want to accept no for an answer. She informed us that they wouldn’t be able to get us a hotel room in Fort Lauderdale if we decided to stay.” Livingston said she finally decided to go ahead and work the flight home, as it seemed to be the easiest solution for everyone involved. Three weeks later, Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18. Sleeping on the jumpseat is a fireable offense at JetBlue. Subsequently, Livingston was placed on suspension pending an investigation. On March 16, Livingston was terminated from JetBlue. The reason given: sleeping on the jumpseat. “I was shocked. I absolutely was NOT sleeping on the jumpseat,” Livingston said. “Management concocted that as an excuse to fire me for attempting to call in fatigued for the flight.” Fatigue is not a new issue for the airline crews. Indeed, it has been a major concern since the dawn of aviation. It is especially important since it impacts airline safety. Pilot fatigue has been blamed for many crashes through the years. “Apparently safety is not JetBlue’s number one concern,” Livingston said. “Otherwise they would have allowed us to call in fatigued and relieved us from the flight. I told the oncoming pilots that we had called in fatigued, and they were shocked that In-flight didn't release us. In their opinion that was a complete no-no.” Not only does crew fatigue impact airline safety, but also crewmembers’ health. In recent years flight attendant and pilot unions have been trying to push for stricter federal regulations regarding required crew rest and maximum duty days. Many airlines like JetBlue, however, find ways to intimidate their employees into flying past the federally mandated daily limits. Livingston, a single mother, stated she felt she had no chance of appealing to get her job back. JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin said the company does not comment on crewmembers to the public. JetBlue flight attendants are not unionized. - The truth only hurts if it should - |
This crap has been going on since the first commercial airlines took flight. It unfortunate... and just plain criminal behavior.
Threats are a too often tactic used by spineless management with full knowledge of certain 119 personnel, which is designed to intimidate both front and back end crews to move the jet, while compromising safety of operation. It’s the same old game… if after a long duty day, pilots don't comply with a request for a Part 91 tail end ferry such turndowns are usually met with a six month simulator ride or no notice line check with a management check airman. You know what kind of possum breath SOBs they can be. You know the routine. A tired crew accepts the tail end ferry… something goes wrong during landing and the airplane is a ball of aluminum at the end of the runway. The canned response from management will be… “The captain should have refused the trip if he/she was tired”. I worked for A charter company that pulled the same crap towards the end of my tenure. The new chief pilot threatened me with immediate termination, and I won't get another job in the industry, you know, the ususal BS. I told him to sh!t in his hat. I’ve been in this business to long to be intimidated by some stupid putz who is trying to advance his personal career into jeopardizing safety of operation, safety of my fellow crewmembers, and passengers, and of course, my airman certificate. The airline was shut down for both operations and mx violations by the FAA 8 months after I left the company. |
JetBlue sounds like a real airline now!
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Originally Posted by RandyWaldron
JetBlue sounds like a real airline now!
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Seems old JB is the same airline but different paint job.
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Originally Posted by captain_drew
Yup! Cept it appears the F/As NEED a union!
This kind the FA experienced is just the begining of the end of JB. They are losing money and will continue to lose as they get older. JB was always a paper tiger and now we will see it for a fact. |
Originally Posted by mike734
I would MUCH rather take my chances in the courts than in arbitration that a union agreement requires.
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Hi, I am the fired FA in question, if you want to know the story, email me at [email protected] all true, except I think she left the part out about JB telling us that there were no hotel rooms available in FLL for a yatch show (which happened to be in Miami) complete lies, lies, and more lies. I guess Miami isnt big enough to handle a yatch show and the overflow needed to go an hour north to FLL. They just didnt want to call in Reserves. They are TERRIBLE!
Carolyn [email protected] |
Originally Posted by Packer Backer
What the hell would the courts do for you? It's employment at will in most states that I know of. Basically they can fire you for anything. Without a union you would probably spend 50K fighting a wrongful termination lawsuit only to lose. No, I'll take the arbitrator and lawyers that are already paid for out of my dues.
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Arbitraiton in the airline industry is not really arbitraiton. It's more like splitting the baby. If you don't think both Union and Company lawyers know the track record of every arbitrator on the SBA, you're misled. They both try to pick the arbitrator based on what his "record" is in the last year. The arbitrator knows that if he finds for one side on a majority of cases, he gets canned. Ask the guy who did TO's arbitration. As soon as he found in the NFL's favor, the NFLPA canned him. Same thing happens in the airline arbitration business.
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Originally Posted by CarolynAL
Hi, I am the fired FA in question, if you want to know the story, email me at [email protected] all true, except I think she left the part out about JB telling us that there were no hotel rooms available in FLL for a yatch show (which happened to be in Miami) complete lies, lies, and more lies. I guess Miami isnt big enough to handle a yatch show and the overflow needed to go an hour north to FLL. They just didnt want to call in Reserves. They are TERRIBLE! Carolyn [email protected] The story told here is tragic. I'm curious to know if you have made any effort to get your job back, or to report the incident to the FAA? You may think, "They've got me dead to rights, someone saw me sitting there with my eyes closed. I have no recourse." On the contrary, you have recourse and reason to persue it, even if you're well on your way to a happy, successful career in nursing. For starters, a crewmember who is fatigued and states so is in no condition to make the judgment call as to whether she is fit to fly another TransCon leg. Once she states she is fatigued, as I believe you did, the supervisor who coerces her to work anyway (which would have been a fairly easy task given your admitted impaired judgment) becomes culpable. She has at that point endangered the lives of the passengers and crew, and should be caused to take responsibility for her actions. I believe it is in the best interest of the airline industry that such actions not go unrewarded. What are your feelings on the subject? Thanks, TonyC - The truth only hurts if it should - |
Tony,
The young lady needs to speak to a lawyer. I wish I knew one to recommend. -LA |
In a union shop, there wouldn't have been any arbitration. It would have been a routine "firing" followed by a month off while the union got her the job back.
This is the way most firings are handled unless they involve gross misconduct or being drunk. |
Originally Posted by mike734
Employment at will does not mean you can be fired for any reason but I don't have the time or inclination (or spelling skills) to go in to a long discussion about it. (OK, for example, you can't be fired for trying to form a union) .
Did you just roll in from Mars or Venus!?!? OF COURSE . . they won’t fire you for ‘trying to form a union’. . they will find some other ‘cover‘ reason. . but the result is the same. Just like our mistreated JB F/A . . I DOUBT . . VERY MUCH. . one of her fellow crew turned her in. . they were as ‘zonked’ as she was. My guess is the Supervisor bogused up a ‘write up’ . . having taken exception to the attempt to call ‘fatigued’. |
Originally Posted by captain_drew
JEEZE !!
Did you just roll in from Mars or Venus!?!? OF COURSE . . they won’t fire you for ‘trying to form a union’. . they will find some other ‘cover‘ reason. . but the result is the same. Let's not argue this point any more. I would prefer to have my case heard by a judge. That is my opinion. It is bases on experience however. |
Hi Carolyn --
My heart goes out to you. You should contact OSHA. They have had great success in championing such cases. The Department of Labor is another alternative too. |
Thanks guys,
I have been getting phone calls and emails from individuals all over, so much support has really helped me after all of this mess. Its really a great feeling, even if I am still fired! I wouldnt even want the job back now.....I would be a target. I am starting nursing school, so I am on a better track now, and the stress has literally disappeared from my life now that I dont have this job. My blood pressue is even down! |
If you, and your attorney feel you are 100% correct, and the JB are 100% wrong, the you owe it to your fellow colleagues to persue this action to the end.
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Notably absent
18 posts and not one post from the JB kool aid crowd :rolleyes:
Is any one surprised?? Dissapointed??:( So what do you think?? Clams or Shrimp. :p |
Most of the JetBlue crowd has moved to a private site. It's nice to only fight amongst ourselves over there.....:D
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Good luck Carolyn. I'm sure you will be vindicated. A union is only as good as it's members/leadership. I hope your co-workers get the name of the person who made the allegation. I'd hate to think it was someone who worked the trip with you. If so, all other f/a's should watch out for this @#$%^.
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you're in a better place
As a former F/A with a major and now flying for a living this really makes my blood boil. It sounds like you might want to pursue this with OSHA, DOT, Department of Health, Department of Labor. Shame on J/B for taking the industry back thirty years. Best of luck Carolyn and you should find nursing more rewarding especially for a single mom like yourself.
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For Jetblue being a LCC, they sure do charge alot for MCO TO LAX Round Trip
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Originally Posted by cs10281990
For Jetblue being a LCC, they sure do charge alot for MCO TO LAX Round Trip
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I ment LA Area, including LGB
Sorry |
Carolyn,
Have you been able to determine exactly WHO made the claim? I don't know JB's exact procedure, but if a crewmember makes a complaint that another crew member was doing something wrong, I'm sure it would have to brought up in writing and the complaining crew member would have to physically sign their name to a statement. If this was a fabrication on the part of JetBlue, then JetBlue is guilty of fraud. If you get a lawyer you can subpeona JetBlue's company records, and see exactly who made the allegation. You could even go as far as doing an analysis of the signature of the complaining crewmember, to see if it really is their signature, or if the managment forged it. Also, if you bring this to the attention of the FAA and can prove your case to them, I believe they can fine JetBlue for a few $$$. |
Carolyn,
I wish you only the best and PLEASE get some legal advice. If nothing else, your wrongful termination is due some $$$. Getting said judgment or settlement will help you explain the termination in future interviews. You will then be able to say, "I was terminated but recieved an offer to come back or compensation becuase it was wrongful. I chose not to go back" Additionally...I haven't seen many JetBlue types talking about how much Neeleman loves his people anymore. Former Morris Air pilots have a lot to say about Neeleman and it always revolves around his dislike of labor or pilots. |
Originally Posted by bluechunks
(Post 43110)
Well yeah, considering the only way to get to LAX on JetBlue is if the flight diverts. :o
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What's a yatch?
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I think she meant yacht....gotta tie in the whole Miami and Ocean thing...
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