jetBlue Hiring
06-28-2017, 11:16 PM
facing forward
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: forward facing stick actuator
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
And why won't they strike?
God this gets so old. The good thing and the bad thing about "process" now is it takes so long to get to the point of a strike everyone is ready to go. In the last few years point me to a mainline pilot group that had not voted to strike.
This group is no different. Every group has their non members or non lanyard types WE ARE NOT DIFFERENT.
Until VA came along we had the largest yes vote for ALPA so I don't buy that this group won't go on strike.
God this gets so old. The good thing and the bad thing about "process" now is it takes so long to get to the point of a strike everyone is ready to go. In the last few years point me to a mainline pilot group that had not voted to strike.
This group is no different. Every group has their non members or non lanyard types WE ARE NOT DIFFERENT.
Until VA came along we had the largest yes vote for ALPA so I don't buy that this group won't go on strike.
Bigger question is will the NMB release/let JB pilots strike. RLA can be a PITA at times.
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06-29-2017, 01:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 320 FO
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot
Lets see how they like picketing on TV first Bubs. If healthcare doesnt change, how many no votes ( As a percentage) do you anticipate? I'd be a NO if thats the case.
06-29-2017, 03:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: P-3C
Posts: 982
This group won't strike because it's the same group that can't pass on a RSA, picks up open time on IROPs (during a negotiation when "help is needed") and that passed on 2 previous union votes.
Check out the participation in the 8% raise vote this year. Not so great.
Jetblue will get us to a CBA sometime around the end of 2017 or into the beginning of 2018. I think the group will be forced to picket and that will drive the "best and final offer" from management. The pilot group will hear some scare rhetoric from management on how we MUST accept this offer. Management will glaze this final offer with the backdrop of the financial ramifications of a strike. Jetblue pilots are NOT going stop working because they NEEED their $$$$$$$$. There will be no strike. Management already knows this and their good faith offers in negotiations are a calculated process. Now, I still think we get a decent CBA but in 3 years we'll continue to be far behind our legacy peers flying the 320 family.
Healthcare. No way. Not happening. They'll maybe and I mean maybe make a new "pilot plan" but it will be very similar to what we have now. Just put some sweet and low in it to make you feel like it's real sugar.
-Bubs
Check out the participation in the 8% raise vote this year. Not so great.
Jetblue will get us to a CBA sometime around the end of 2017 or into the beginning of 2018. I think the group will be forced to picket and that will drive the "best and final offer" from management. The pilot group will hear some scare rhetoric from management on how we MUST accept this offer. Management will glaze this final offer with the backdrop of the financial ramifications of a strike. Jetblue pilots are NOT going stop working because they NEEED their $$$$$$$$. There will be no strike. Management already knows this and their good faith offers in negotiations are a calculated process. Now, I still think we get a decent CBA but in 3 years we'll continue to be far behind our legacy peers flying the 320 family.
Healthcare. No way. Not happening. They'll maybe and I mean maybe make a new "pilot plan" but it will be very similar to what we have now. Just put some sweet and low in it to make you feel like it's real sugar.
-Bubs
06-29-2017, 04:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,916
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
This group won't strike because it's the same group that can't pass on a RSA, picks up open time on IROPs (during a negotiation when "help is needed") and that passed on 2 previous union votes.
Check out the participation in the 8% raise vote this year. Not so great.
Jetblue will get us to a CBA sometime around the end of 2017 or into the beginning of 2018. I think the group will be forced to picket and that will drive the "best and final offer" from management. The pilot group will hear some scare rhetoric from management on how we MUST accept this offer. Management will glaze this final offer with the backdrop of the financial ramifications of a strike. Jetblue pilots are NOT going stop working because they NEEED their $$$$$$$$. There will be no strike. Management already knows this and their good faith offers in negotiations are a calculated process. Now, I still think we get a decent CBA but in 3 years we'll continue to be far behind our legacy peers flying the 320 family.
Healthcare. No way. Not happening. They'll maybe and I mean maybe make a new "pilot plan" but it will be very similar to what we have now. Just put some sweet and low in it to make you feel like it's real sugar.
-Bubs
Check out the participation in the 8% raise vote this year. Not so great.
Jetblue will get us to a CBA sometime around the end of 2017 or into the beginning of 2018. I think the group will be forced to picket and that will drive the "best and final offer" from management. The pilot group will hear some scare rhetoric from management on how we MUST accept this offer. Management will glaze this final offer with the backdrop of the financial ramifications of a strike. Jetblue pilots are NOT going stop working because they NEEED their $$$$$$$$. There will be no strike. Management already knows this and their good faith offers in negotiations are a calculated process. Now, I still think we get a decent CBA but in 3 years we'll continue to be far behind our legacy peers flying the 320 family.
Healthcare. No way. Not happening. They'll maybe and I mean maybe make a new "pilot plan" but it will be very similar to what we have now. Just put some sweet and low in it to make you feel like it's real sugar.
-Bubs
That 8% raise thing is a "nothingburger" and not something to base what this group will do. They were going to take away the PS anyway so I assume you voted no? That would have bought you the old payrate and a cut in PS but yeah I am sure the company would have been like gee let's get that CBA done now.
As far as the first vote you need to look at what was going on in the industry to see how that was a loss. The second one should have passed but it is what it is.
I just have a more optimistic view of our pilots.
06-29-2017, 05:05 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: P-3C
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
No we will get us to a CBA and yes this pilot group will strike.
That 8% raise thing is a "nothingburger" and not something to base what this group will do. They were going to take away the PS anyway so I assume you voted no? That would have bought you the old payrate and a cut in PS but yeah I am sure the company would have been like gee let's get that CBA done now.
As far as the first vote you need to look at what was going on in the industry to see how that was a loss. The second one should have passed but it is what it is.
I just have a more optimistic view of our pilots.
That 8% raise thing is a "nothingburger" and not something to base what this group will do. They were going to take away the PS anyway so I assume you voted no? That would have bought you the old payrate and a cut in PS but yeah I am sure the company would have been like gee let's get that CBA done now.
As far as the first vote you need to look at what was going on in the industry to see how that was a loss. The second one should have passed but it is what it is.
I just have a more optimistic view of our pilots.
But, neither side needs a strike. We will succeed in negotiating a decent CBA. It will have wins for both sides. I'm looking forward to it.
The 8% pay raise vote should have seen a 100% participating. It was like 70% of the group that voted. 30% doesn't care because they most likely believed in your argument that "well its a done deal so whatever". I voted NO because I believe we shouldn't have accepted a gift from the side we're negotiating against when it comes to compensation. Now, I know you're going to tell me "No No No, they wont use the 8% against us." The REALITY is they already have. Wait till they announce the 401k move to Empower Financial. There's more cost neutrality on top of your PS argument. The CBA will prevent management from just making up the rules. A win for us.
I'm on your side PilotPayne. I just know the group is not going to strike. I dont want to strike and I think it wont come close to that type of job action.
-Bubs
06-29-2017, 05:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,916
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
Optimism is fine but reality is real. This pilot group is petrified to lose $$$$. Thats why they grab at RSA and open time. We tolerate management changing the FLICA rules when it's convenient for THEM to have the rules "help out". The same way we will capitulate into their terms of a CBA. No strike. The unity only goes so far.
But, neither side needs a strike. We will succeed in negotiating a decent CBA. It will have wins for both sides. I'm looking forward to it.
The 8% pay raise vote should have seen a 100% participating. It was like 70% of the group that voted. 30% doesn't care because they most likely believed in your argument that "well its a done deal so whatever". I voted NO because I believe we shouldn't have accepted a gift from the side we're negotiating against when it comes to compensation. Now, I know you're going to tell me "No No No, they wont use the 8% against us." The REALITY is they already have. Wait till they announce the 401k move to Empower Financial. There's more cost neutrality on top of your PS argument. The CBA will prevent management from just making up the rules. A win for us.
I'm on your side PilotPayne. I just know the group is not going to strike. I dont want to strike and I think it wont come close to that type of job action.
-Bubs
But, neither side needs a strike. We will succeed in negotiating a decent CBA. It will have wins for both sides. I'm looking forward to it.
The 8% pay raise vote should have seen a 100% participating. It was like 70% of the group that voted. 30% doesn't care because they most likely believed in your argument that "well its a done deal so whatever". I voted NO because I believe we shouldn't have accepted a gift from the side we're negotiating against when it comes to compensation. Now, I know you're going to tell me "No No No, they wont use the 8% against us." The REALITY is they already have. Wait till they announce the 401k move to Empower Financial. There's more cost neutrality on top of your PS argument. The CBA will prevent management from just making up the rules. A win for us.
I'm on your side PilotPayne. I just know the group is not going to strike. I dont want to strike and I think it wont come close to that type of job action.
-Bubs
I just don't think the group is as weak as you make them out to be. Yeah a few guys pick up RSAs but that isn't the bulk of the group. As far as the 8% goes there was nothing we could do, the only thing we could do is what we did vote in a union which passed with a very very high margin.
Like you said we are on the same side so no reason to keep this up.
I still think we will have a great CBA and will be close to the big guys and for a first CBA that will be a big deal.
I do agree there won't be a strike but I think it's the company that does not want to go through it. I am glad the Union is ramping things up I guess we will see how the company deals with it.
06-29-2017, 06:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 320 FO
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
Now, I know you're going to tell me "No No No, they wont use the 8% against us." The REALITY is they already have. Wait till they announce the 401k move to Empower Financial. There's more cost neutrality on top of your PS argument. The CBA will prevent management from just making up the rules. A win for us.
-Bubs
-Bubs
Personally, I'm looking forward to the move to Empower because their investment fees are significantly lower. That was a win for the entire employee group.
06-30-2017, 09:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
Originally Posted by Cloud5urfer
I don't understand what you're trying to get across with the move to Empower...
Personally, I'm looking forward to the move to Empower because their investment fees are significantly lower. That was a win for the entire employee group.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the move to Empower because their investment fees are significantly lower. That was a win for the entire employee group.
Im hearing some of what you say about the reality of the pilot group. 17% margin and the 6th most profitable airline in the world has plenty of leverage between perception of financials and the reality of our company brand and long term sustainability.
06-30-2017, 11:14 AM
Not A Janitor
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Originally Posted by hyperboy
Bubs,
Im hearing some of what you say about the reality of the pilot group. 17% margin and the 6th most profitable airline in the world has plenty of leverage between perception of financials and the reality of our company brand and long term sustainability.
Im hearing some of what you say about the reality of the pilot group. 17% margin and the 6th most profitable airline in the world has plenty of leverage between perception of financials and the reality of our company brand and long term sustainability.
06-30-2017, 12:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Captain
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by hyperboy
Bubs,
Im hearing some of what you say about the reality of the pilot group. 17% margin and the 6th most profitable airline in the world has plenty of leverage between perception of financials and the reality of our company brand and long term sustainability.
Im hearing some of what you say about the reality of the pilot group. 17% margin and the 6th most profitable airline in the world has plenty of leverage between perception of financials and the reality of our company brand and long term sustainability.
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