The FO ATP is not even close to what I'd consider working your way through the ranks when compared to getting your ATP from Cape Air.

So you think pilots will end up working on two different pay rates soon? Those that are 3A and those that are not?

^^^ agreed ^^^

Yes I do. There is no way the ELT is going to increase everyone else's pay as high as the 3A guys are going. What would motivate them to do that now? Plus if they give that raise to everyone that didn't join the 3A they'd have to give a raise again to 3A group. If they don't you'd have another 3A situation where one group got a raise and the other didnt

This whole thing is just confusing as hell. If they give the 3A guys a raise and not everyone else, wouldn't that just trigger ANOTHER 3A suit from the people that didn't get the raise since "one group got a raise and the other didn't?"

I'm all for the 3A guys getting what they went after, but spinning it into completely separate pay rates for them vs the rest of the pilot group (keep in mind a lot of guys weren't even HERE when the 3A issues went down) just smacks of division in the ranks. Honestly, the simplest solution would be to set the rates where they should be, give the 3A guys retro and move forward.

The 3A guys won a lawsuit. You can't sue blue because they lost and are forced to give the raises to the 3A participants. With The amount of the raise the 3A guys are going to get from 2007 and onward adding the back pay issues 401k premium rates etc. there's no way they could even afford to do it.

Also this was triggered by a raise the E190 first year FO's received back in 2007. Now your saying they should get caught up to the new rates the 3A guys are getting. Nope won't happen. The easiest thing to do is keep it separate. There are already big divisions in the ranks as it is.

Take a look at this article from 1997. Paragraph 6 is where they start to discuss the "Killer B's" at American.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1997/04/28/225523/

So, an "A scale" for the 3A guys and a "B scale" for everyone else is what you're talking about. Doesn't sound simple to me. As Zap has pointed out, historically this hasn't worked well, especially in pilot unity. In a time we need to be standing together, it'll drive a wedge right down the middle.

It's pretty cut and dry as far as language goes, and the ELT was pretty short sighted to think people wouldn't have gone after. Hell, if I were here in 2007, I would have jumped on it, too. It's a clear violation, and it really shouldn't have taken so long for it to get hashed out. However, I think the 3A guys getting 26% AND whatever we get this year while everyone else settles for just the latter is gonne kill what little unity we've got going. Retro pay/401k match/profit sharing (we DID have it for that time), absolutely. The other alternative is to give everyone a 26% raise EXCEPT first year CA and FOs. That dodges 3A altogether since it refers to new hire pilots. That would likely kill getting any good talent once we start competing with DAl, UAL, AA, etc.

I have a hard time believing that there will be two pay scales. If you sign a pea change than that is the pay you get. If you choose not to sign pea changes as the 3A group hasn't done since 2007 then you don't get the changes to your PEA. The company got in trouble with 3A because they gave 190 FO'S a pay pay adjustment without giving it to the rest of the pilot group this same % raises. If they offer you a raise and you turn it down by not signing your PEA's the company is not liable to pay you. It's when the give a group a raise and don't offer it to everyone else that the PEA kicks in. Lets wait and see the results of the arbitrator damages meeting on July 25th before we all just speculate on the results.

Sounds like a plan. Wasn't aware there was another date set for that. Also wasn't aware the 3A group passed on the PEA changes.