jetBlue or Alaska
 

I'm about to separate from active duty and would love to live out west. I have all of my ducks in order-apps out, networking in order, interview prep, etc. I haven't decided exactly where I'd like to settle down but California, Arizona, and Nevada are on my radar. I hate the cold and the rain so north of California is out. Sorry PNWesterners, nothing personal.:)
Which airline would you go with? I know, I have to get an offer first. The first few years pay is about the same but talking to a few military buds, there seems to be more opportunity to make more money at jetBlue. Alaska has a higher 401k contribution but nothing else really stands out besides this. Both are strong companies but Alaska concerns me a bit being so small with very slow growth, whereas jetBlue is more than twice the size of Alaska and is still growing at a healthy pace. How are the work rules? How senior does LAX (Alaska) and LGB (jetBlue) go for a new hire? How about the upgrade times?
Thanks in advance and my apologies for the dumb questions. I just don't know a whole lot about the airlines.

Just a thought, but you could broaden your horizons a bit. Off the top of my head I can think of other airlines with bases in LAS, SFO, OAK, PHX, LAX, ONT, etc, as well, not to mention other airlines that home base wherever you want.

Apply soon, apply often.

Just an idea, but your three listed states include the cities of Oakland, Phoenix, and Las Vegas which are the three most junior bases at SWA. You will get assigned to any of them immediately and be off reserve in a few months most likely. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread either.

I've got my apps in with the big boys also but this was a hypothetical question since jetBlue and Alaska are similar companies in that each have a big presence on both coasts (west for Alaska and east for jetBlue). I have a lot of info about the other airlines from my buds but I don't have a whole lot of people that I know at Alaska and jetBlue, especially at Alaska.
I remember speaking with someone from my squadron who left for Alaska years ago. I didn't know him very well since he left shortly after I got to the squadron. He was so happy to land a job there but I recently heard that he is looking for greener pastures. Why would anyone leave a major/legacy airline and give up their seniority? Those are the things I'd like to hear about so that I can make an intelligent decision. They both seem like very good companies but I just don't know.

I'd love to work for SWA. I have my apps in with them also. I just wanted to find out a bit more about these two since I don't have a whole lot of contacts at either of these companies, especially Alaska.

Ok, no worries, good idea to explore all your options.

LAX is going pretty junior. Good chance that you can hold it right out of training. I believe more than 50% of the LAX base are commuters the last time I checked. Unless you have family ties down there, the housing prices make it difficult to live anywhere near the airport unless you enjoy hearing frequent sirens and gun fire. Upgrade is running around 10 years if you are willing to go up to ANC. Upgrade time in LAX is probably the highest mainly due to lack of growth. I doubt LAX will ever get significant growth-just my guess. Growth comes in terms of seat miles rather than pilots, here at Alaskan. 200+ pilots over a time span of just over a decade is hardly considered growth by any means.
Over 60% of this pilot group signed a 5 year contract in 2013. Don't expect to see a new contract until well past the amendable date. Weak association+ultra greedy management=sub-mediocre contract years past amendable date. My .02. The current contract is well below mediocre deal. That's why our pay is where it's at. Soon, Alaskan pilots will be the lowest paid 737 pilots in the legacy world by a big margin and one of the lowest paid in the major world.
If you still want to come here, more power to you. In any case, good luck.

I have a buddy at JetBlue and he's been waiting for over a year for LGB. Not sure when he'll get it. All the Jr FOs get A320s to JFK or E190s to BOS...
On the plus side I have 5 friends at JB and they ALL love it and aren't applying anywhere else despite being very marketable. 1st year pay isn't great but by the 3rd year you're looking at 6 figures. Seems like a great place to work from what they tell me.

6 figures by 3rd year? How about premium pay at either one - available, not available? How is it at each place?

JB realities
 

First and foremost. I enjoy working at JB.

But I want all poolies and applicants to come in with their eyes WIDE open.
THIS IS AN EAST COAST AIRLINE! :)
It will take you probably 1.5-2.5 years to get out to LGB, and when you do, you will be VERY junior. I also hear they have the worst trips of all the AB bases (4 legs and redeyes).
I don't have the upgrade numbers handy, but you can be a captain in BOS or JFK in about 2.7 years. LGB is more like 10, AND YOULL BE JUNIOR.
To those asking about extra money...it can be had here. VERY easily if you live in base. I say again, live in base. :p
RSA (reserve stints that pay 150% come out about every month, but they come out it seems late the day prior so if you're a commuter it's difficult to grab them.
The biggest way to make big money here is do not use PTO (it's our combined sick/vacation pot). You can sell it back at 150% of current seat. I was on the jumpseat and a 12+ year captain on the AB makes more in PTO sell back than I make in a month.
To the OP, if you think you can stomach living on the east coast for a couple years, then be super junior in LGB, welcome aboard.

NoDeskJob nailed it. Jetblue is an east coast airline that happens to have a base out west. You'll sacrifice long term earnings by limiting yourself to 320 FO LGB at JB. You can still have a great QOL in LGB even as a reserve. I run into the guys out there who bid reserve and rarely fly.

I am happy working at JB, but live in base in the BOS area.

In the latest award, LGB was awarded to a 2/15 hire. But the bids have been all over the board lately. FLL has been super senior the last few bids, while just a year or two ago new hires were being awarded it, same with LGB going to a few lucky new hires.
I'd expect the worst (east coast for a year at least) and hope for it a little sooner if you're extremely fortunate.
Upgrade is still around 3 years here, but it will not be in LGB!

Tom

Edit:
I'm at JetBlue, been here for about 3 years and I love it; I don't have apps out at any other airlines. I play the RSV game and work about 110 hours a year.
Between the two, chances are SWA will be around in 5 years. JB will be around, but weather it will say JB on the side of our aircraft or not is anyone's guess....

To the original poster,

Maybe this obvious question has already been asked but why do you think you would like to work for Alaska Air if you dislike the wet and/or cold weather? Also someone else already pointed out that JetBlue is an east coast airline, quite a bit of cold and wet weather up in New England as well, but you might as well get a job flying in the Carribean or flying over the Grand Canyon if you want to avoid cold weather entirely.

Check your PMs.

If you can't live in LAX or ANC, or don't want to live in SEA or PDX, then Alaska is certainly not one of your choices. There is no benefit package Alaska has that trumps the desire to live in these locations.

Live near your ANG/AFRES unit of that applies, or hopefully a region you (or your family) really likes that has both an airline domicile and your post-active duty military work and hire at that airline.

Avoid commuting...period. Good luck.

Plenty of cold at the Canyon. Snows at GCN all the time. So there goes that option. ;)

If you want to stay out west you should avoid Jetblue unless you're ok with commuting cross country....which is pretty whacky.

Over the next 10-15 years there are less than two dozen LGB captains who will reach age 65.

GP

He decided he didn't want to fly an old ass (design wise) 737 the rest of his life.

If you have guns, you don't want to be in The Republic of Kalifornia.

If you want to be out west and want another option, there is also Virgin America. :)

Presuming you're looking at a 30-35 year career, I wouldn't narrow my options too much. Airlines come and go, bases open/close and grow/shrink. If you really want to live only in that small section of the country, you can always commute, but realize that comes with it's own set of issues and problems. Some airlines and freight operators are commuter friendly. Big difference if you only have to get to work one time a month for a 12 day trip, even better some will positive space/buy you a ticket.

At B6, realize too that Long Beach is a 320 only base, so if you get the E190 out of training you'll be seat locked on it (and thus commuting to BOS or JFK) for 2 years.

In my class the 190 actually went pretty senior, but that's not normal. Bids from training are awarded based on age, and since you can't predict where you'll fall in the class, I'd be prepared for a cross country commute for a minimum of 2 years.

JetBlue has been great for me, and I really like knowing my company has never furloughed a pilot or declared Chapter 11. But I live on the east coast and have a 1 leg on-line commute. Your mileage WILL vary.

Here are the retirement numbers for LGB captains. There are roughly 120 captains in LGB.

2016 - 0
2017 - 3 (3) 2.5%
2018 - 3 (6) 5.0%
2019 - 1 (7) 5.8%
2020 - 2 (9) 7.5%
2021 - 2 (11) 9.2%
2022 - 4 (15) 12.5%
2023 - 5 (20) 16.7%
2024 - 11 (31) 25.8%
2025 - 6 (37) 30.8%
2026 - 4 (41) 34.2%
2027 - 3 (44) 36.7%
2028 - 4 (48) 40.0%
2029 - 5 (53) 44.2%
2030 - 12 (65) 54.2%
2031 - 8 (73) 60.8%
2032 - 12 (85) 70.8%
2033 - 7 (92) 76.7%
2034 - 8 (100) 83.3%
2035 - 11 (111) 92.5%
2036 - 4 (115) 95.8%
2037 - 1 (116) 96.7%
2038 - 0 (116) 96.7%
2039 - 1 (117) 97.5%
2040 - 1 (118) 98.3%
2041 - 1 (119) 99.2%
2042 - 0 (119) 99.2%
2043 - 1 (120) 100.0%

This list includes those who are out on some kind of leave as well as management pilots.

Don't get overly excited about the percentages...37 captains retiring in the next 10 years.

Also note that future captain vacancies in LGB will not necessarily be filled by LGB F/O's. Plenty of pilots here biding their time out east waiting to be a line-holding LGB captain.

Yeah....there's also Skywest and boutique air as well. It sounds like the OP is concerned with Alaska's very slow growth. If that's the case VX probably isn't on his radar.

14 month JetBlue guy here so I can offer a perspective. Hired Nov 2014 so I'll give my 2015 earnings (the first full year and that included 6 months of JFK reserve; I'm on the bus):

Gross: 64771 (included the $6000 new hire bonus-no longer available):
Included:
Ground holding:$22
Junior assignment:$55.90
E-learning:$158
Night override (red eye bump):$2511
Profit Sharing:$2543
Medical Allowance:$125

Did NOT include $3940 in non- tax per diem.

Putting aside that during phase II, I was required to "go get 200 hours more recency of experience at a regional" to augment my 10,000 hours (this is a long story told here many times, but I was a FlightSafety instructor at the time with prior 121 CA experience and turbine PIC but only 125 hours in the last 12 months) I'll give you my perspective (I have to put the bitterness of 5 months at a regional at $400 a week behind me-as well as the 125 seniority numbers it cost me:eek: to give you an honest assessment). During this time my wife was also really sick so that added to the stress.

I like B6. It's a tough commute from DFW because I'm off line. I'm also not a big fan of the red eyes - a commuter's dream but proven to have a tremendously deleterious effect on health, fitness, and nutrition. But it is what it is. I'm a 45 year old guy that lives in Dallas (that's now Airbus typed with 700 hours in the last 12 months). So the only thing that makes sense for me at B6 is the "quick" upgrade. And that's my plan. Even with an inexorable life of reserve. Without the upgrade I'd ultimately do better locally at AA or SWA (or heck, even elsewhere). But again, pretty happy with B6 as a whole and plan to remain. At the very least I'm planning on moving to a JetBlue city to commute online.

If you plan on commuting find out about the commuter policy....Alaska is very anti- commuter.....our policy is only good on mainline Alaska(no skywest/horizon) and it requires two flights with open seats prior to show. So that eliminates everything east of Denver. We also have to pick our city pairs and you are only allowed one set......