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Some Laws - For The Record

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Some Laws - For The Record

Old 09-19-2005, 07:26 AM
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National Labor Relations Act

Purpose of the Act

"...Experience has shown that labor disputes can be lessened if the parties involved recognize the legitimate rights of each in their relations with one another. To establish these rights under law, Congress enacted the National Labor Relations Act. Its purpose is to define and protect the rights of employees and employers, to encourage collective bargaining, and to eliminate certain practices on the part of labor and management that are harmful to the general welfare."

What the Act Provides

"The National Labor Relations Act states and defines the rights of employees to organize and to bargain collectively with their employers through representatives of their own choosing or not to do so. To ensure that employees can freely choose their own representatives for the purpose of collective bargaining, or choose not to be represented, the Act establishes a procedure by which they can exercise their choice at a secret-ballot election conducted by the National Labor Relations Board. Further, to protect the rights of employees and employers, and to prevent labor disputes that would adversely affect the rights of the public, Congress has defined certain practices of employers and unions as unfair labor practices."

Section 7 Rights

"...Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all of such activities..."

Examples of Section 7 rights

-Forming or attempting to form a union among the employees of a company.
-Joining a union whether the union is recognized by the employer or not.
-Assisting a union to organize the employees of an employer.

Examples of conduct the Board considers to interfere with employees free choice are:

-Threats of loss of jobs or benefits by an employer or a union to influence the votes or union activities of employees.
-A grant of benefits or promise to grant benefits to influence the votes or union activities of employees.
-An employer firing employees to discourage or encourage their union activities or a union causing an employer to take such action.
-The occurrence of extensive violence or trouble or widespread fear of job losses which prevents the holding of a fair election, whether caused by an employer or a union.

Interference with Section 7 Rights:

Section 8(a)(1) forbids an employer "to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7. Any prohibited interference by an employer with the rights of employees to organize, to form, join, or assist a labor organization, to bargain collectivelly, to engage in other concerted actvities for mutual aid or protection, or to refrain from any or all of these activities, constitutes a violation of this section. This is a broad prohibition on employer interference, and an employer violates this section whenever it commits any of the other employer unfair labor practices. In consequence, whenever a violation of Section 8(a)(2,3,4,5) is committed a violation of Section (8)(a)(1) is also found. This is called a derivative violation.
Examples of violations of Section 8(a)(1). Employer conduct may, of course, independently violate Section (8)(a)(1). Examples of such independent violations are:
-Threatening employees with loss of jobs or benefits if they should join or vote for a union.
-Threatening to close down the company if a union should be organized in it.
-Questioning employees about their union activities or membership in such circumstances as will tend to restrain or coerce the employees.
-Spying on union gatherings, or pretending to spy.
-Granting wage increases deliberately timed to discourage employees from forming or joining a union.


Railway Labor Act

General Purpose

"The purposes of the chapter are: (1) To avoid any interruption to commerce or to the operation of any carrier engaged therein; (2) to forbid any limitation upon freedom of association among employees or any denial, as a condition of employment or otherwise, of the right of employees to join a labor organization; (3) to provide for the complete independence of carriers and of employees in the matter of self-organization to carry out the purposes of this chapter; (4) to provide for the prompt and orderly settlement of all disputes concerning rates of pay, rules, or working conditions; (5) to provide for the pormpt and orderly settlement of all disputes growing out of grievances or out of the interpretation or application of agreements covering rates of pay, rules, or working conditions."
 
Old 09-19-2005, 07:36 AM
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What this means is that all speech regarding working conditions, pay, benefits, and the like are protected.
All speech regarding the forming of a union or other mutual aid association is protected.
As well; it is prohibited for management and their representatives (mgt pilots) from trying to determine the activities and names of people who choose to engage in this activity.
It is also prohibited for management and their representatives to make any attempts to discourage this speech or to sway the opinions of those engaged in this speech.
Any attempt to do so could result in prosecution.
The law makes no exception for online forums and the types of speech described in the law are therefore protected whether online, in a public meeting, or in private.
 
Old 09-19-2005, 10:48 AM
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And your point is ................. ?
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Old 09-19-2005, 01:07 PM
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No point or opinion.
Only information.
 
Old 09-19-2005, 02:33 PM
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The values committe is looking to rewrite their charter. This may be of value to them.
 
Old 09-19-2005, 09:12 PM
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This might be a silly question but has there ever been a way to poll JB pilots and ask the question, "Is now the right time to consider unified representation?" or "are you in favor of a JB pilots union?". If there has never been a poll, can it be done? If there has, anyone know the results? There are pleanty of opinions on this forum and I doubt the loudest are the majority. The way I see it only JB pilots know what's best for JB pilots. And if the answer to the above questions is/was no that doesn't mean that a year from now it can't be yes.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly4Beer
This might be a silly question but has there ever been a way to poll JB pilots and ask the question, "Is now the right time to consider unified representation?" or "are you in favor of a JB pilots union?". If there has never been a poll, can it be done? If there has, anyone know the results? There are pleanty of opinions on this forum and I doubt the loudest are the majority. The way I see it only JB pilots know what's best for JB pilots. And if the answer to the above questions is/was no that doesn't mean that a year from now it can't be yes.
Not a silly question at all. Maybe a better question would be is there ever a wrong time to have unified representation?

Some Jetblue pilots think they know what is best for JetBlue pilots and that is when representation can protect us from ourselves.
 
Old 09-20-2005, 09:08 AM
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and if we form "JBPA" what will i benefit from by giving up 1% or 2% of my salary??

for those who are new to "unions"; you dont get what you deserve, you get what you NEGOTIATE. therefore, what am i going to have to give up to get a better deal from a "pilot association"??

once you start negotiating EVERYTHING is on the table...so dont be naive to believe that a union is the answer. just ask the guys from united, usair, delta, northwest, and american who are flying with us now. seems like the 2% they gave to their "association" served them well......
 
Old 09-20-2005, 10:50 AM
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Bluebrother is correct. For everything there is a cost and a benefit. In some cases there is a cost and NO benefit.
When a carrier is going BK, it's easy to say, "what's your union doing for you now?" This simplistic statement completely discounts all that came before. What did they give back relative to what they gained over the life of the union?
There are many examples of failure in the airline industry. One has to chose to believe that those failures were due to unions. Personally, I think that's a pretty simplistic view.
Even if one choses to believe that the foundation of work rules, safety enhancements, and subsequent pattern bargaining that produced $300,000 annually are the causes of the industries woes - that argument is apples to oranges for us.
Why?
Because to be accurate we should compare ourselves to other LCC's - Southwest, Airtran, Frontier, and America West. None of these unions can be accused (rightly or wrongly) of bankrupting their carriers.
The next step is to determine what exactly is to be gained and is it worth 1%.
Logically, it should all boil down to cost vs. benefit. But it never does.
Much of the time it's how hard did you push your junior folks and how lavishly did you reward your senior folks.
In other words, how many pilots are you accumulating that feel exploited or abused. The words expoited or abused are relative to a number of things including compensation, benefits, and quality of life. For example, is 75 hours adequate compensation for the level of grief imposed on someone's life and schedule?
An informal vote to determine what the pilots want would be completely inaccurate and would more than likely be used as propoganda against a secret ballot. The reasons for an inaccuracy are:
1. Reluctance to vote for fear of being known.
2. Eagerness to vote to show one's blueness.
3. Apathy because the vote will be known to have bias.
A secret ballot conducted be the NLRB is the only way for the true desire of Jetblue pilots to be known.
I would guess that this vote is far from imminent.
There are miles of debate and there many brave souls that would have to step forward before any serious thought could be given to a card campaign.
My guess is two years but it's really hard to say because a lot of things can happen in the industry and within Jetblue.
I don't personally believe that the Values Committee should be steered in any way towards this endeavor. They were voted in under a certain set of assumptions.
If an organizing campaign is to be undertaken, it should be conducted by people with belief, empathy, understanding, and fortitude. It should be guided by either ALPA or representatives from SWAPA. Either group is available for consultation and hosting private meetings. SWAPA has helped a number of pilot groups who've decided to organize as an independent association.
Unions are democratic and political.
Ultimately, each individual pilot will determine whether or not the people who've stepped forward as potential representatives are truly doing so to benefit ALL Jetblue pilots on a go forward basis.
Of course, after months and months of debate, it may be determined that most of us are happy the way we are.
I know that ALPA would not conduct a ballot unless they felt assured that at least 70% of the pilots would vote in favor. I think that's a pretty wise goal. Nobody wants a 51% vote.
Beware of the sound bite. If someone isn't up to debating every last BORING detail of every single BORING issue - then their opinion should be accepted but it shouldn't be taken as gospel. The details matter. Statistics matter. Percentages matter. The economy matters. The balance sheet matters. Sweeping, declarative statements without substance don't matter.
 
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