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Peering in from the outside.

Old 08-13-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default Peering in from the outside.

Hello Folks,

I am currently a Chautauqua pilot considering applying myself vigorously (whatever that means) towards a job at Jet Blue. After reading some of the discussion here with regard to 190 pay etc., I would like to offer the opinion of an outsider as well as ask a few questions.

I currently have roughly 700 hours PIC turbine and know that without at least 1000 hours or most likely a lot more, I don't stand much of a chance of getting hired. However, as a few have posted I am thinking that the competitive minimums for hiring are going to have to drop due to the pay as well as the fact that I could hang out at Chautauqua and eventually fly a 190. Other regionals offer a similar pay scale for their 70 seat equipment. In addition, as upgrade times lengthen and guys are looking at sitting in the right seat of the 190 for 2-3 years, something is going to have to change. Honestly, I feel as though it would be fair to hire someone with no turbine time that maybe has some 135 experience to work as a 190 FO. However given the huge surplus of pilots that exists, that will probably never happen. I watched my company sell us on the same "quick upgrade/crumby FO rate" deal when we settled our last contract. However, a job at Jet Blue currently stands as a great opportunity for someone with lower PIC time as the upgrade will be quick and Chautauqua certainly doesn't have A320s and most likely never will. It is also less of a risk because you will still be logging PIC time and will be better poised for further employment if the proverbial sh*t hits the fan at Jet Blue. With all that said, now it's time for a few questions.

1. How is it working for a non-union airline? pros cons?
2. What kind of quality of life do you see with schedules, days off, etc.?
3. I know it's not currently in the plan, but do you think A321s 330s etc. are a possibility maybe 10 years down the road?
4. What does Neeleman think about further international flying.. maybe Central or South America? Is he looking to stay strictly domestic with just a few exceptions permanently?
5. How are pay raises negotiated?
6. Do most pilots help clean the airplanes?
7. Are you happy?
8. Is the airbus a boring airplane with its extreme level of automation?
9. Want to write me a letter of recommendation? MUAHAHA just kidding.

Any answers to any questions would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 08-13-2005, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sike
Now it's time for a few questions.

1. How is it working for a non-union airline? pros cons?

I don't think it is that bad, coming from a military background. My dad was a union member. The company says it tries to take care of us, but it is mainly their idea of what we need, not ours. There is lots of talk but no action unless it helps the company. I do feel that we have some representation to protect us (the values committee, the scheduling committee, etc), and out contract as it is, does give us some protection. But it does feel kinda of "on you own" as there is no group to represent us against management and any changes they see fit to implement.

2. What kind of quality of life do you see with schedules, days off, etc.?

Senior guys can get schedules with 11-12 days on and 18-19 days off per month (flying 80-85 hours). Which is not bad! Middle of the pack and the rest run more along 15 days on and 15 days off. Some Jr bidders my only get 13-14 days off but the number of days off tend to follow the number of hours each pilot bids to fly. A middle to Jr bidder can get upwards 16-18 days off, if he goes with the minimum hours

3. I know it's not currently in the plan, but do you think A321s 330s etc. are a possibility maybe 10 years down the road?

Hey, we were never suppose to get E190s! I think that maybe in the long term it is possible. Then the A330 Capt can get twice the A320 Capt's pay! (remember the E190 pay was based on as similar cost per seat mile, so the it should nearly double).

4. What does Neeleman think about further international flying.. maybe Central or South America? Is he looking to stay strictly domestic with just a few exceptions permanently?

No real data. I think that it will mainly be domestic with some trips to Canada, Mexico, the Islands, Central and South America.... As long as we can do it with the A320. But nothing to europe or the far east without new planes.

5. How are pay raises negotiated?

I wish! Our contract says that management will consider pay raises when conditions permit and are warrented. Well, conditions are slim right now, and even when conditions were good, management didn't give us any type of raise, not even a single cost of living raise. We don't get a vote! We are at managements mercy. They did good in 2001 with the pay raise even after 9/11, but their support and caring for us appears to be gone.

6. Do most pilots help clean the airplanes?

I would say that 99.5% of our pilots help clean planes. It helps us all to do so (profit sharing, turn time, the JetBlue Exper., etc). However if one of us need run to catch a hop to commute home, we will normally leave. But I will be sure to let the lead FA know why.

7. Are you happy?

Mostly yes. But you can see above to see some of what I am unhappy about. I do like the ablity to contol a great deal of my schedule (pref bidding, trip trading, PTO, gateway trades, etc). I am unhappy about no pay raises (cost of living), no protection from management, crappy work rules in our scheduling guide, managements ability to make changes without our approval, skyrocketing medical cost, low productivity in our pairings, limited or now rig to force productive pairings or maintian minimum pay levels per day, etc. I would not change places with a pilot anywherer else. Although SWA would be a tie with JB.

8. Is the airbus a boring airplane with its extreme level of automation?

Not really, it is a challenge to make it do all the tricks.

9. Want to write me a letter of recommendation? MUAHAHA just kidding.

Hey, wish I could.
I hope this helps.

Just my opinion.....

FNG

Last edited by FNG320; 08-13-2005 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:27 PM
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FNG320,

I have been reading numerous posts here. Just wanted to say thanks for all the information for us "outsiders".
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sike

1. How is it working for a non-union airline? pros cons?

I personally think it's fantastic to be at a place where we don't need one because no one is trying to exploit us. The sense of all being on the same team is one of the huge selling points of being here. As I'm sure you've gathered from reading other threads, that has diminished some over the last year or two, but I'm still chalking that up to growing pains.

2. What kind of quality of life do you see with schedules, days off, etc.?

Works for me. I'm a minimum schedule kind of guy and I'm able to commute and get 16-17 days off on average. Conversely, if I want to make some good money, I can pick up trips and do very well. Nice to have the choice.

3. I know it's not currently in the plan, but do you think A321s 330s etc. are a possibility maybe 10 years down the road?

All kinds of rumors. Wouldn't surprise me though. I've even heard rumors about the 787. It's all well down the road to be sure -- hard to look too far ahead when the industry's in shambles/upheaval, but Central/South America is where Id' guess we'd be once we get seriously into international flying.

4. What does Neeleman think about further international flying.. maybe Central or South America? Is he looking to stay strictly domestic with just a few exceptions permanently?

See above.

5. How are pay raises negotiated?

They're not. Raises seem to be driven by economics vice collective bargaining or grumbling in the ranks. If I become unhappy with my pay then I'll sweat this, but frankly I think we're fairly compensated at the moment. *shielding my face from flying fruit and rotten vegetables*

6. Do most pilots help clean the airplanes?

Yes. Seems really odd to me that this is a sticking point for people looking in from the outside. It really is no big deal. Takes 5 minutes tops and adds to the "team" feel. If you have other things to do (mx write-ups, getting food for the crew, etc.) then you don't, but the very few who don't "out of principle" are seen to be making some sort of political statement which comes across as "I'm better than you." Whatever -- total non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

7. Are you happy?

Big time. There are things that could be better, just like anywhere, but input to change them seems to be well-received, even if change occurs slowly. I'd be way more concerned if they made knee-jerk changes to everything everyone suggested to them. We are most certainly in a challenging phase, but I definitely don't buy into this idea that anyone's trying to screw anyone. There's a little negativity that wasn't there before and that drags you down at times, but for the most part people still want to be there and believe in the place and that makes a huge difference.

8. Is the airbus a boring airplane with its extreme level of automation?

It's definitely more about managing computers than stick-and-rudder much of the time, but I think the 'bus rules. Great roomy cockpit, lots of cool little details, and it definitely is an art to make it do exactly what you want.

9. Want to write me a letter of recommendation? MUAHAHA just kidding.
*snicker snicker*
just another guy's opinion...
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:47 PM
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Thanks SitBackRelax, I agree with all you said.

Nice to read a positive upbeat post.

I'm sure we will see some pay increases once profits return and ticket prices get realistic.
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:55 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys. Definitely food for thought. Hope everything continues to go well and maybe I will see you someday.

Mike
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