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Old 06-26-2018, 08:31 AM
  #6841  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
You’re right- scope is above average .
You’ve heard of Envoy Pinnacle and SkyWest? They fly planes with AA/DAL and UAL painted on the tail. Won’t happen here.
I know you either don’t want to see it or don’t understand them, but where in section 25/pairing construction do you see anything less than Standard? Point out the above standard stuff too- just to keep you honest.
Pay could be higher, I agree.
Now address Scope and Work rules directly and then we’ll move to health care and profit sharing- where I’m sure you’ll be delighted to point out shortcomings.
What do you think about the limits on our codesharing? We grow 1 block hour per year, grow by one pilot per year, and we have basically no limitations on domestic or international codeshares. How is that a good thing?
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:51 AM
  #6842  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
You’re right- scope is above average .
You’ve heard of Envoy Pinnacle and SkyWest? They fly planes with AA/DAL and UAL painted on the tail. Won’t happen here.
I know you either don’t want to see it or don’t understand them, but where in section 25/pairing construction do you see anything less than Standard? Point out the above standard stuff too- just to keep you honest.
Pay could be higher, I agree.
Now address Scope and Work rules directly and then we’ll move to health care and profit sharing- where I’m sure you’ll be delighted to point out shortcomings.

I started a whole thread on scope, but OK.


Scope.

Name one major airline that allows unlimited code sharing on domestic routes with zero provisions on the size of the aircraft. Because as long as we grow 3% this year, that is allowed in our contract. The only restriction is between FOCUS CITIES. That means only a handful of routes are off limits for outsourcing. That isn't industry standard.


Work rules.
This is a doozie.



Reserve is sub standard. From reading the other groups we mirror AA. (Reach for the stars fellaz.) DAL, UAL have LCR as standard with varying provisions for transfer to SCL and the opportunity for more pay. In general, the senior 25% of our reserve pilots will get a watered down version of what all pilots at DAL have. The rest get a cost-neutral, slightly tweaked version of our terrible current rules.



Pairing construction. Honestly no real gripes, but one. Where is there language to prevent the company from nesting 10hr 3 day trips in a 4 or 5 day pairing with a soul crushing first day? That being said, I don't see our trips changing. Our trip construction isn't that bad here with the exception of pay on those 30 hour sits.


Commuter Policy.

Sounds good. Good stuff. Get to the end aaaaand.... "Repeated mis-commutes may be considered in evaluations of a commuting pilot’s overall dependability." So, basically even if you follow the policy you can be disciplined. Yup Industry Standard. Did I mention the dependability policy is still in effect?


Sick call.
The company can force you to see a doctor in order to disqualify you. If you call out you fall under the current dependability policy. Hmmm, wonder what this language looks like at DAL...


Pass travel.
No you can't sit in first class while jumpseating. Yes you must clean the plane. I mean, name a single REGIONAL with language that bad. NAME ONE.


Crew meals.
SNACK BOXES!!!! YHGTBFSM!

OK, to be fair, we don't stock hot food on our flights. Oh wait, I'm sure there is a provision where if on a mint flight we get fed. Yes, I am sure of it. Just let me look...
Nope SNACK BOXES! On trans-cons!!!
I mean, name a single REGIONAL with language that bad.


Pairing Extensions.
If your flight is cancelled during an IROP, you must sit AIRPORT STANDBY.
Yup. And at the end of your 2-4 hour sit, before you can leave, you must make positive contact with CS. During an IROP.

Positive contact with Crew Services, during an IROP, before you can leave. Let that sink in.


Retirement.
Most airlines give the company plan to retirees until 65. I still have no idea what we have, but the fact that it isn't "blue plan until 65" tells me its a concession and probably sucks.





Pay
Do I even need to go there?


This TA is a turd sandwich. If we vote yes to it there is literally no hope for us.




Last edited by PasserOGas; 06-26-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:07 AM
  #6843  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
You’re right- scope is above average .
You’ve heard of Envoy Pinnacle and SkyWest? They fly planes with AA/DAL and UAL painted on the tail. Won’t happen here.
I know you either don’t want to see it or don’t understand them, but where in section 25/pairing construction do you see anything less than Standard? Point out the above standard stuff too- just to keep you honest.
Pay could be higher, I agree.
Now address Scope and Work rules directly and then we’ll move to health care and profit sharing- where I’m sure you’ll be delighted to point out shortcomings.
First of all, that's not entirely true. We can "codeshare" with an RJ operator or even a domestic narrowbody operator (Hawaiian out of LGB).

Have you heard of Air Lingus, TAP Portugal, Iceland Air, Air France, Air Brussles, Iberia, British Airways? All operate to destinations within the range of A321LRs, but who needs THAT scope?

We may not have any protections for our potential high paying positions! But at least those scary RJs are semi-protected to secure our lowest paying positions!

Let's see, pilots for regional airlines are becoming more rare than an on-time BlueJet flight, but how about our hubs?

RJs to replace our E190s at:

JFK- WHAT FOXTROT SLOTS?

BOS- WHAT FOXTROT GATES?

WEST COAST- WHAT FOXTROT GATES?

MCO- WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT, YOU FOXTROT SERIOUR CLARK?

FLL- ARE YOU FOXTROT KIDDING ME?
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:16 AM
  #6844  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
What do you think about the limits on our codesharing? We grow 1 block hour per year, grow by one pilot per year, and we have basically no limitations on domestic or international codeshares. How is that a good thing?
I’ve never like that we codeshare but I’ve never thought we’d be going to Dubai or even Europe. I’d love to be flying widebodies, but we don’t so I take it as NA.
The scope section prevents rjs from being used as B6 Express- a more real threat than Emerites or TAM.
It looks impermeable, but I’m still digesting.
What say you?
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:21 AM
  #6845  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
I’ve never like that we codeshare but I’ve never thought we’d be going to Dubai or even Europe. I’d love to be flying widebodies, but we don’t so I take it as NA.
The scope section prevents rjs from being used as B6 Express- a more real threat than Emerites or TAM.
It looks impermeable, but I’m still digesting.
What say you?
Under this TA, Hawaiian and Alaska can fly our customers as much as they want, domestically. Hmm..ok. But how about say Moxy...possibly one of the biggest concerns people should have about this whole arrangement imo.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:28 AM
  #6846  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
Under this TA, Hawaiian and Alaska can fly our customers as much as they want, domestically. Hmm..ok. But how about say Moxy...possibly one of the biggest concerns people should have about this whole arrangement imo.
Nailed it!

Morons are so scared of the fake threat of Skywest that they can't see what's ACTUALLY coming.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:48 AM
  #6847  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
Under this TA, Hawaiian and Alaska can fly our customers as much as they want, domestically. Hmm..ok. But how about say Moxy...possibly one of the biggest concerns people should have about this whole arrangement imo.
"JetBlue would like to announce our newest codeshare partner, Moxy Airlines. Moxy Airlines is a natural fit for JetBlue as it was started by our very own David Neeleman. They have the very same culture and amenities as JetBlue and will provide a seamless experience for our customers while we focus on what make JetBlue great! Potato farms! Moxy Airlines has the second largest fleet of C-Series aircraft in the US, with only Delta operating more. This agreement doesn't violate any agreements with ALPA, because the planes don't say JetBlue! Find out more info on hellojetblue.com"

Rock solid Scope.

Vote NOPE!
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:57 AM
  #6848  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas View Post
"JetBlue would like to announce our newest codeshare partner, Moxy Airlines. Moxy Airlines is a natural fit for JetBlue as it was started by our very own David Neeleman. They have the very same culture and amenities as JetBlue and will provide a seamless experience for our customers while we focus on what make JetBlue great! Potato farms! Moxy Airlines has the second largest fleet of C-Series aircraft in the US, with only Delta operating more. This agreement doesn't violate any agreements with ALPA, because the planes don't say JetBlue! Find out more info on hellojetblue.com"

Rock solid Scope.

Vote NOPE!
How much does Jetblue make on codeshares?
A nickel on the dollar?
Why are they going to do this?
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:01 AM
  #6849  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
How much does Jetblue make on codeshares?
A nickel on the dollar?
Why are they going to do this?
1. How much does it COST them to make that nickel?

2. We already have tremendous amounts of codesharing to destinations we will soon be able to reach on our own.

In the case of Moxy, you will have start-up airline wages for the whole airline giving it a tremendous cost advantage over JB, and we will very likely codeshare with Moxy. Same will continue to be true with our codeshare partner out west, JetSuiteX. Which IS allowed in the TA, just as I said.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:04 AM
  #6850  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
1. How much does it COST them to make that nickel?

2. We already have tremendous amounts of codesharing to destinations we will soon be able to reach on our own.
We goin to Dubai?
Awesome.
The company only makes substantial money if it operates it. Codesharing, to correct myself, is only pennies on the dollar, So if B6 can fly it with B6 metal and make the money, it will.
Btw, why do you think we do DTW? Think about it and get back to me...
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